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I do not understand the partitive...

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no destiny ordained
Finland

I do not understand the partitive...

Post by no destiny ordained »

Hi, I'm Tam, and I am SO glad this place exists; the new Duolingo format makes my blood boil.

That aside; I'm having trouble understanding when to apply the partitive. The explanation the course gave was that it's for when you have an unknown amount of something, but then it gets used for known amounts? Like 'litra mehua'. That's literally saying how much juice you have right there so why isn't it 'mehu'? And isn't any juice ( or cheese or whatever) an amount of that thing, known or unknown, by definition? So when does the partitive need to be used?

Tam, it/its. Based in the UK, studying Finnish.

Zimozie
Finland

Re: I do not understand the partitive...

Post by Zimozie »

no destiny ordained wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:27 am

Hi, I'm Tam, and I am SO glad this place exists; the new Duolingo format makes my blood boil.

That aside; I'm having trouble understanding when to apply the partitive. The explanation the course gave was that it's for when you have an unknown amount of something, but then it gets used for known amounts? Like 'litra mehua'. That's literally saying how much juice you have right there so why isn't it 'mehu'? And isn't any juice ( or cheese or whatever) an amount of that thing, known or unknown, by definition? So when does the partitive need to be used?

Hi Tam. We do use the partitive case when we are speaking about an unknown amount of something. We also use it when we are speaking about a part of something, thus the name "partitive". I will give you some examples:

(Minä) syön kakun. = I eat a/the cake.
(Minä) syön kakkua. = I eat cake (for example, a piece from the cake).

(Minä) juon litran mehua. = I drink [one] liter of juice.
(Minä) juon sen mehun. = I drink the juice (the whole juice).
(Minä) syön juustoa. = I eat cheese (in general/a part of the whole).
(Minä) syön sen juuston. = I eat the cheese (the whole cheese).

I think we say "litra mehua" only because "litra" requires a partitive case and it's a measure word with a noun relating to food. It's the same with: "kilo(gramma)", "metri", "sentti(metri) etc.

Ostan yhden kilon perunoita. = I buy one kilogram of potatoes.

As a native speaker, it's a bit hard for me to tell the rules. But I know we use it with some verbs: "katsoa (jotakin)", "käyttää (jotakin)" etc.

Minä katson televisiota / tv:tä. = I watch TV.
Käytän rannekelloa. = I use a watch (literally: a wrist clock).

I think the main rule is going to be: if you don't know exactly the correct amount of something, use the partitive case which indicates a part of a whole. This is what I think but cannot say it for sure because we use it even if we have done something (without finishing it = partitive) compared to doing something (and finishing it = accusative).

Juoksin maratonin. = I ran a marathon. (a completed action)
Juoksin maratonia, kunnes ... = I was running a marathon (not a completed action) until ...

This may help you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_n ... number 1:

🇫🇮 native, 🇺🇲 C1-B2, 🇫🇷🇮🇱🇸🇪 B2-B1, 🇪🇸 B1-A2, 🇯🇴🇪🇪🇳🇴A2-A1, 🇷🇺🇺🇦🇬🇷🇨🇳 A1
Duolingo profile: https://duome.eu/zimozie77

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no destiny ordained
Finland

Re: I do not understand the partitive...

Post by no destiny ordained »

Hm. So when do you definitely not use the partitive? Like when is cheese just cheese and not an amount of cheese?

Tam, it/its. Based in the UK, studying Finnish.

Zimozie
Finland

Re: I do not understand the partitive...

Post by Zimozie »

no destiny ordained wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:16 am

Hm. So when do you definitely not use the partitive? Like when is cheese just cheese and not an amount of cheese?

Haluan ostaa yhden juuston. = I want to buy one cheese. (a specific amount and one is going to buy the whole cheese and not just a little piece of cheese. A specific goal for buying.)
Haluan ostaa juustoa. = I want to buy cheese. (not a specific cheese and saying this in general)

It depends on your purpose. If you want to, e.g. buy a whole cheese, then use the accusative. If you're eating the whole cheese, use the accusative. If you're eating just a part/slice from the cheese and not the whole cheese at once, use the partitive.

If you know French, you'll know how the partitive case works.

Je mange un gâteau vs. Je mange du gâteau.
= I eat a cake. vs. I eat cake.

I hope you understand what I mean.

🇫🇮 native, 🇺🇲 C1-B2, 🇫🇷🇮🇱🇸🇪 B2-B1, 🇪🇸 B1-A2, 🇯🇴🇪🇪🇳🇴A2-A1, 🇷🇺🇺🇦🇬🇷🇨🇳 A1
Duolingo profile: https://duome.eu/zimozie77

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