Pinta wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:21 pm
gmads wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:21 am
Corinnebelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:55 pm
[...] what is the easiest language to understand as far as idioms, sentence structure and grammar?
I'd definitely say that English should be among the top 3 if not at the very top. Such an uncomplicated language! It's a beauty: it is direct and straight-forward, it has a reduced number of elements —no gender, one definite article, two indefinite singular articles, three verbs conjugations—, it is flexible —not in its word order but in how words can be transformed from one grammatical category to another—, it has adapted quite well to embrace technological terms, and it is simple —forget about having to deal with the irrational complexities of clitics and their diabolic descendants: reflexive verbs et. al. As I first said, it is an uncomplicated language.
I don't think English is an easy language to learn. It really depend on your native language. If you speak Spanish or French, learning English might be relatively easy. But if you speak Japanese or Korean, it's very challenging.
I think it would be best to start from the start.
Corinnebelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:55 pm
I'm sure this changes depending on your native language. But what is the easiest language to understand as far as idioms, sentence structure and grammar? Not talking about sounds here, pronunciation or languages scripts. But complexity or simplicity regardless of culture inferences. Which languages describe things the simplest versus more in more complexity.
Is this a different question to the easiest language to learn?
Corinnebelle initially mentioned it, this changes depending on your native language, and you also agreed with that, "It really depend on your native language."
I'd say we can all definitely concord that from the actual understanding-a-language point of view the only real possible answer is, it depends on your native language, there's no going around this. However, if we discard the native language factor, then we must talk about learning the language, since no one can understand any language without learning it.
Corinnebelle also established that, Not talking about sounds here, pronunciation or languages scripts, but since one cannot put aside this factor while learning a language, let's consider it briefly.
I may not know the meaning of a written word in Spanish or in English, but at least I can read it and pronounce it (even if in English I could err a bit on a particularly unknown complex word). However, Chinese characters may have two or three readings, in the best of cases, up to even a hundred! Yes, Japanese may have a simpler phonetic system than English (words written in Katakana or Hiragana sound as they are written), but I think most people would favor the idea that it is simpler to learn one reading per word (e.g. thou, though, thought, dough, tough) than tens. Yes, the English phonetic system is weird…
- en-ghoti-fish.png (72.58 KiB) Viewed 13519 times
… but nothing beyond reasonable.
The core of Corinnebelle's question was: as far as idioms, sentence structure and grammar.
English has phrasal verbs, and in Spanish we have "perífrasis verbales." I'm willing to bet that most languages have their own peculiar idiomatic system. Regarding sentence structure, each language has one, thus, people used to a SVO structure (English) will suffer when jumping to the SOV train (Japanese), and viceversa. So, in general terms, these two points apply the same to all languages. Therefore, "as far as idioms, sentence structure and grammar" goes, we are only left with the language grammatical aspects to determine if a language is easier to learn than others or not.
All languages definitely have their own complexities, but if one were to create a comparison table with those of each language, in each and every sense, I sincerely think that English would be among the least complicated ones, thus, making it one of the easiest to learn. This, of course, doesn't mean that learning it will be an effortless endeavor. Of course it won't, especially as an adult. Regardless of the learner's native language, for the average person —those not interested in languages and without any experience learning them,— who might dedicate maybe four hours a week to go to a school and a few others for self-studying and homework, learning English will definitely be an effort that will last many many years.
I am no polyglot, Spanish is my native language, I manage along with English, and I have finished a few Italian online courses, though I am far far far away from being fluent. At one point or another I have twiddled with Bulgarian, Russian, German and Japanese. Currently I'm doing the Portuguese, Russian and Arabic Duolingo courses. From this little experience is from where I part to conclude what I think about English, that is, that as a whole it must be among the easiest to learn.
Japanese may lack the concept of noun gender or number, but having different counting systems, depending on what is being counted? Really?!
- Counting in Japanese: Objects of All Shapes and Sizes
In Japanese, there are specific counters for specific items based on the nature, size and shape of the thing […]
There are way more specific counters in Japanese, but these are probably the ones that are used frequently.
They may have only two verb tenses but then again, be ready to deal with the hierarchical social system of the language.
- Hierarchical Language - Japanese
Japanese takes various forms, spoken and written, simple and honorific, general and polite, male and female, the aged and the young. Different industry and occupations also have different ways of speaking the language. It reflects the hierarchy and unity of the Japanese society. Japanese has an extensive honorific speech system, and the use of it in formal occasion sees the elegance in the Japanese language. However, the complicated grammar system makes learning honorific speech difficult. Even native Japanese cannot master the use of honorific speech thoroughly.
That last sentence is also an issue regarding the Chinese characters in their writing system (i.e. native people not being able to read them with confidence, at least when considering all those characters not used on everyday life).
Pinta wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:21 pm
I guess English is pretty easy language among Latin languages, but it is still hard.
English inherited many words from Latin, however, it belongs to what is called the West Germanic group, which includes German, English, and Dutch.
Regardless of the family to which English belongs, yes, it is a pretty easy to learn language.
Pinta wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:21 pm
Basically Latin languages are all complicated. They have upper case and lower case, cursive, silent letters, and complex grammar(they don't make any sense. For example, in English, why plural of paper is paper instead of papers?).
Yes, but so are all languages.
Many languages use uppercase and lowercase letters, however, beyond the rules that many share (starting a sentence, personal names, etc), English language isn't particularly burdened with them. From what I know, German uses them more.
Do you mean cursive as in the style used in handwriting, like print vs. cursive? If so, yes, a number of alphabets, like Greek, Latin, Cyrillic and Armenian, use them, but other kind of scripts have more complex characteristics. Arabic, for example, may have three different shapes for a same letter depending on its position within a word. Also, many scripts tend to make optional the writing of the vowels, making it very hard for non-native speakers to deduce them.
Yes, Romance languages (Italian, French, etc) tend to have complex grammars, but I don't think that English (a Germanic language) comes closer to them, let alone to languages that also have a large case system, like Arabic, German, Quechua or Russian, among many others. So, there are languages with more complex grammars than those from Romance languages.
Pluralization might seem difficult when one comes from a language that does not uses it. Collective nouns is part of the pluralization system. Anyway, grammatically speaking, there are far more difficult concepts to deal with. For example, something as relatively innocent looking as prepositions, is without any doubt everyone's headache in any language.
Pinta wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:21 pm
And it's vice versa too. If you speak English, it will be hard to learn languages like Japanese or Korean. So it all depends on your native language after all.
Yes, that is true, but the general idea was trying to see, from a purely objective point of view (i.e. imagining that this could be done without taking into account one's own native language), which could be considered the easiest languages to learn.
Pinta wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:21 pm
English is definitely not the hardest language to learn, but not the easiest either.
I don't know if there is an "easiest" language to learn, but there are easier ones, or so it is said.
Perhaps we could answer this question more easily if we tried to answer the opposite one: which are the most complicated languages to learn? As soon as we began to move forward, answering it little by little, we would be left with those easiest to learn. Of course, in order to arrive at any useful answer in a relatively short time and with the least amount of effort, the analysis would have to consider only the fifty (or even less? thirty?) most widely spoken languages in the world… or would anyone dare to compare the almost seven thousand languages that currently exist, along with the almost three hundred scripts that are used?