So...how do you get to DuoMe forum topics for DuoLingo sentences?

[Ady]

I'm sure I heard that the DuoLingo forums were copied over to here (and actually allow further discussion). I'm pretty sure I even tried it a couple of months, but don't remember how.

I thought you just had to replace 'duolingo.com' with 'duome.eu' in the DuoLingo chatroom URL or something, but I'm trying something like that now and it's not working.

[Ady]

If I'm out to lunch on this (it just occurred to me that the partial URL swap technique might just be for looking up one's DuoLingo profile on DuoMe!, not sentence discussions ), then maybe we should should grow back the per-sentence discussions organically. (Start a topic here if you want to discuss a DuoLingo lesson/sentence.) It would be nice if everything could just be copied over and the discussions unfrozen/unlocked though!

[Dana_Dany Danuta]

I'm sure I heard that the DuoLingo forums were copied over to here (and actually allow further discussion). I'm pretty sure I even tried it a couple of months, but don't remember how.

I thought you just had to replace 'duolingo.com' with 'duome.eu' in the DuoLingo chatroom URL or something, but I'm trying something like that now and it's not working.

Hello, maybe you were on the "Duolingo Forum Archive"
Top posts of topic Duolingo (English)

• https://duolingo.hobune.stream/topic/1/1

... here on the right side you have "Sections" where you can choose a language, e.g. Esperanto and when you click, this page opens to you:

• https://duolingo.hobune.stream/topic/915/1

[Corinnebelle]

There a sentence extension you can use. Read about it here. It doesn't allow you to comment on Duolingo, but it does allow you to keep learning.

[Ady]

That extension sounds great. Thanks.

Since the description mentions "creating a thread, if one doesn't already exist", though, I guess the frozen discussions from the DuoLingo website have not been copied over?
I might volunteer for some of the copy-paste gruntwork if we want to get it done, and not let those discussions wither on the vine.

[Corinnebelle]

That extension sounds great. Thanks.

Since the description mentions "creating a thread, if one doesn't already exist", though, I guess the frozen discussions from the DuoLingo website have not been copied over?
I might volunteer for some of the copy-paste gruntwork if we want to get it done, and not let those discussions wither on the vine.

No, the Duolingo's website material has not been copied over. But as you can see from this sentence you can access the link via the sentences on here.

[jzsuzsi]

What happens if Duolingo decides to remove the sentence discussions?
I don't want to make you panic, they did not announce anything like that.
But by now, we are familiar with Duolingo's decision making and their inclination to remove things...

Ady, feel free to use the extension, and if you want to do some "copy-paste gruntwork", you can also copy-paste the existing comments to Duome.

[Ady]

What happens if Duolingo decides to remove the sentence discussions?

Exactly. To my mind, the mere fact of their having shut down the discussion makes them not trustworthy, and leaving the result of so many people's effort in their hands, as the only copy, is pretty risky.

[Ady]

No, the Duolingo's website material has not been copied over. But as you can see from this sentence you can access the link via the sentences on here.

I notice that that DuoMe-resident discussion of a DuoLingo sentence is just thrown in with the rest of the forum threads (for English speakers learning Spanish, in this case). I think that's a bad approach and the sentence discussions should really have their own parking spot; maybe duome.eu > Forums > Languages > I speak English > I'm learning... > Esperanto > DuoLingo sentences.

How would I request that that forum folder/node be created?
(and equivalent ones for the other combinations of 'I speak' language and 'I'm learning' language, of course)

[gmads]

I notice that that DuoMe-resident discussion of a DuoLingo sentence is just thrown in with the rest of the forum threads (for English speakers learning Spanish, in this case). I think that's a bad approach and the sentence discussions should really have their own parking spot; maybe duome.eu > Forums > Languages > I speak English > I'm learning... > Esperanto > DuoLingo sentences.

How would I request that that forum folder/node be created?
(and equivalent ones for the other combinations of 'I speak' language and 'I'm learning' language, of course)

viewforum.php?f=420-unanswered-sentence-discussions

Once a sentence is answered it is then moved to the corresponding language forum.

---

  ㆍenglish ㆍgeneral ㆍdebate ㆍduome

[Ady]

Thanks. OK, so that's unanswered sentences only, though?
What about when they're answered?
Also, is that for DuoLingo? I don't see anything referring to that.
Also, does having the sentences to and from every pair of languages make sense?

I haven't tried the browser extension yet, by the way. Maybe some or all of my questions will be answered once I do?

[Ady]

Aha. Maybe this is just because no-one has used the DuoMe DuoLingo browser extension yet for En->Eo, but I see a big difference between the En-Eo forum area and the En-Fr forum area:

https://ibb.co/28QXmsV

https://imgur.com/a/uGvwC7z

(How do you get an image to show up??)

(In case that image gets deleted from the host website at some point, the difference is that the En->Fr area has, above the thread link list (with the 'New Topic' button above it, there is a whole separate link list that En-Eo doesn't have, and it includes 'Sentence discussions' (along with 'Questions', 'Traduction de textes', and 'Les proverbes').)

[gmads]

Thanks. OK, so that's unanswered sentences only, though?

Indeed, only unanswered sentences.

What about when they're answered?

They are moved to the corresponding language forum. So you have the unanswered general forum and the relocated sentences, for example: Ese tomate y esa papa (es → gn).

Also, is that for DuoLingo? I don't see anything referring to that.

Yes, they are taken from Duolingo.

Also, does having the sentences to and from every pair of languages make sense?

Not really, IMNSHO

I haven't tried the browser extension yet, by the way. Maybe some or all of my questions will be answered once I do?

Maybe some, yes

[gmads]

(How do you get an image to show up??)

You need to point to the image itself, the actual png file:

https://i.ibb.co/4sGB9Yv/2022-10-14-scr ... ons-un.png

Like so (without the tag spaces): [ img ]here goes the url [ /img ]...

[Ady]

(How do you get an image to show up??)

You need to point to the image itself, the actual png file:

https://i.ibb.co/4sGB9Yv/2022-10-14-scr ... ons-un.png

Like so (without the tag spaces): [ img ]here goes the url [ /img ]...

Not sure how much more trial and error it would have taken to figure that out with this interface. Thanks!

[Ady]

First off, amazing. Answered all my questions. You're the best.

Also:

Thanks. OK, so that's unanswered sentences only, though?

Indeed, only unanswered sentences.

What about when they're answered?

They are moved to the corresponding language forum. So you have the unanswered general forum and the relocated sentences, for example: Ese tomate y esa papa (es → gn).

So when they are in the unanswered question pile, they are actually not present in the form area for the corresponding languages?
(i.e. they are not simply also inked to in the unanswered list?)
Seems a bit odd.

I haven't tried the browser extension yet, by the way. Maybe some or all of my questions will be answered once I do?

Maybe some, yes

I finally tried the browser extension**.
Having used it, I actually don't see how there can be unanswered questions. If I use the DuoMe button in DuoLingo, it immediately prompts me for a post which then ends up being the second post.

**I was avoiding it at first given the browser warning about the TamperMonkey extension having the power to act as a keylogger (etc.). I ended up installing it in a separate browser I don't log into any important accounts in just in case.

[Corinnebelle]

[mention]Ady[/mention]
How would I request that that forum folder/node be created?
(and equivalent ones for the other combinations of 'I speak' language and 'I'm learning' language, of course)

You can do that in requests. Some other languages do have sentence discussions. Hebrew German Arabic as you say Spanish as well. Not everything has been setup yet.

[Ady]

Done. Thanks.
(viewtopic.php?t=7907-please-add-sentenc ... ish-french)

[gmads]

First off, amazing. Answered all my questions. You're the best.

Thanks. It's a pleasure.

So when they are in the unanswered question pile, they are actually not present in the form area for the corresponding languages?
(i.e. they are not simply also inked to in the unanswered list?)
Seems a bit odd.

No, they are not, as you can confirm by taking a look at the URL of an unanswered entry. For example: Медведь ест.

It lives at: Forums > Unanswered Sentence Discussions
But not at: Forums > Languages > I speak English > I'm learning... > Russian

If you want to be completely sure of this, just take a look at the search results page for Медведь: Search found 10 matches: медведь

Compare now with the address of a commented sentence: Мои лошади пьют.

I finally tried the browser extension**.
Having used it, I actually don't see how there can be unanswered questions. If I use the DuoMe button in DuoLingo, it immediately prompts me for a post which then ends up being the second post.

Mh... what do you mean? Once the button is clicked, a new thread is created, without any other kind of entries, as you may confirm by checking the thread I just put, or any of the unanswered sentence threads. Or maybe the extension has been updated; I don't know.

[Ady]

I finally tried the browser extension**.
Having used it, I actually don't see how there can be unanswered questions. If I use the DuoMe button in DuoLingo, it immediately prompts me for a post which then ends up being the second post.

Mh... what do you mean? Once the button is clicked, a new thread is created, without any other kind of entries, as you may confirm by checking the thread I just put, or any of the unanswered sentence threads. Or maybe the extension has been updated; I don't know.

Since each press of the DuoMe browser extension script button immediately brought up not only an auto-generated post by sentence-bot, but also a spot for me to enter a post, I was under the impression that I had to enter something in order for anything to get posted (i.e. that the post by sentence-bot was a draft that would not be actually submitted unless I also submitted a following post).

I now see the sentence-bot post is posted regardless of whether I use the prompt for a post from me.

v
Aside: The extension started being wonky in the past day. Now instead of generating a post about the question I pressed the button for, it generates a post for a different question! In fact it generates a post for the question I am about to get, immediately after the one I pressed the button for! (So it's not working correctly, but as a side effect I get a preview of the question I am about to get, and of course the answer! Is this happening for anyone else?

[gmads]

I finally tried the browser extension**.
Having used it, I actually don't see how there can be unanswered questions. If I use the DuoMe button in DuoLingo, it immediately prompts me for a post which then ends up being the second post.

Mh... what do you mean? Once the button is clicked, a new thread is created, without any other kind of entries, as you may confirm by checking the thread I just put, or any of the unanswered sentence threads. Or maybe the extension has been updated; I don't know.

Since each press of the DuoMe browser extension script button immediately brought up not only an auto-generated post by sentence-bot, but also a spot for me to enter a post, I was under the impression that I had to enter something in order for anything to get posted (i.e. that the post by sentence-bot was a draft that would not be actually submitted unless I also submitted a following post).

I now see the sentence-bot post is posted regardless of whether I use the prompt for a post from me.

That's right. The thread is created regardless of what one does afterward. If one does nothing an unanswered sentence thread is created —and that's why there can be unanswered sentences—, however, if one writes something the post is added to the thread, which is then moved to the respective language forum.

From my point of view, the extension should create a thread only if the user actually writes anything, otherwise it should simply do nothing.

I sincerly think this ever-growing list of unanswered sentences is utterly useless: a month ago there were 53 pages of unanswered sentence discussions, now there are 66.

Aside: The extension started being wonky in the past day. Now instead of generating a post about the question I pressed the button for, it generates a post for a different question! In fact it generates a post for the question I am about to get, immediately after the one I pressed the button for! (So it's not working correctly, but as a side effect I get a preview of the question I am about to get, and of course the answer! Is this happening for anyone else?

Really?! You have found a new issue then. We are becoming legion

See the de-nada-en-es thread for a couple of other problems.

[duome]

We'll need to wait for [mention]luo-ning[/mention] to address these issues
I don't think I can touch his code.

[Ady]

Mh... what do you mean? Once the button is clicked, a new thread is created, without any other kind of entries, as you may confirm by checking the thread I just put, or any of the unanswered sentence threads. Or maybe the extension has been updated; I don't know.

Since each press of the DuoMe browser extension script button immediately brought up not only an auto-generated post by sentence-bot, but also a spot for me to enter a post, I was under the impression that I had to enter something in order for anything to get posted (i.e. that the post by sentence-bot was a draft that would not be actually submitted unless I also submitted a following post).

I now see the sentence-bot post is posted regardless of whether I use the prompt for a post from me.

That's right. The thread is created regardless of what one does afterward. If one does nothing an unanswered sentence thread is created —and that's why there can be unanswered sentences—, however, if one writes something the post is added to the thread, which is then moved to the respective language forum.

From my point of view, the extension should create a thread only if the user actually writes anything, otherwise it should simply do nothing.

I sincerly think this ever-growing list of unanswered sentences is utterly useless: a month ago there were 53 pages of unanswered sentence discussions, now there are 66.

I think the term 'unanswered' is misleading here, actually. The posts made by 'sentence bot' contain a sentence and a translated version of the sentence, nothing unanswered.** I would call that just un-commented-on, or (better English) unaddressed.

(**This line of thinking is why I originally assumed a sentence-bot post shown would not actually be posted until I entered a following post (potentially an actual question).)

I would say a sentence thread can only really be called 'unanswered' if, after the 'sentence bot' post, there is a human-entered post actually containing a question. ...and yet the way things work right now, if anyone adds a post to a sentence thread that thread gets taken out of the 'unanswered' pile!

Right now the 'unanswered questions' area looks like somewhere a helpful person could dive in and help some fellow language learners. At least the fact that all of the languages are lumped together does a bit to help dispel that notion.

I suggest renaming the 'unanswered sentences' area 'unaddressed sentences', or even more clearly 'sentences with no comments yet'.
(Actually I'd also change 'sentences' to 'passages' (or maybe 'lessons'), since there definitely are ones with more than one sentence, but I know that's off-topic!)

[Ady]

Aside: The extension started being wonky in the past day. Now instead of generating a post about the question I pressed the button for, it generates a post for a different question! In fact it generates a post for the question I am about to get, immediately after the one I pressed the button for! (So it's not working correctly, but as a side effect I get a preview of the question I am about to get, and of course the answer!) Is this happening for anyone else?

Update: It isn't completely broken for me. I triggered the entering, by Sentence Bot, of around 25 'sentences' yesterday, and I would say about 10 of those times it entered the wrong 'sentence' (always the upcoming one, unless I triggered it on the last 'sentence' of a lesson of course, in which case it would seem random). The errors were clumped together, something like: 10 good, 5 bad, 2 good, 3 bad, 5 good.

[Cifi]

I think the term 'unanswered' is misleading here, actually. The posts made by 'sentence bot' contain a sentence and a translated version of the sentence, nothing unanswered.** I would call that just un-commented-on, or (better English) unaddressed.

But still, just renaming the subforum doesn't solve the issue I think. If the one who created the thread does not have any questions, it is not likely that someone else would have a question and have the plugin installed (and if so, it would still be early enough to create the thread only then).

All others who might have questions and cannot post them in Duolingo's sentence discussion anymore would most likely never find the forum thread. I just tried, currently Google does not even list the ones I checked.

[Ady]

I think the term 'unanswered' is misleading here, actually. The posts made by 'sentence bot' contain a sentence and a translated version of the sentence, nothing unanswered.** I would call that just un-commented-on, or (better English) unaddressed.

But still, just renaming the subforum doesn't solve the issue I think.

True. I think it's a worthy step though. I was hinting at more, too.

If the one who created the thread does not have any questions, it is not likely that someone else would have a question and have the plugin installed (and if so, it would still be early enough to create the thread only then).

Well let's look at that. Among DuoMe users, there are those who have the extension script and those who don't.

• For DuoMe users who have the extension and script and are coming at the sentence threads from there, when they press the DuoMe button within DuoLingo the effect is no different whether the sentence thread was created beforehand or whether they triggered it, so sentence threads (even those with no comments) don't hurt anything. If I understand correctly how the system works, people are just transported to the correct threads regardless of whether they were created before, whether there are comments on them, or where they are parked.

• For DuoMe users who do not have the extension and script, the fact that there are comment-less sentence threads floating around can also only help since at least there is a chance they can find a thread to comment on. ...but that does suggest they should all be in the same place. ...and the best place would be in the sentence area in the forum part covering the given target language and starting language pair (not using the all-language 'unanswered sentences' are anymore). As for sentences with comments, well they're already there.

All others who might have questions and cannot post them in Duolingo's sentence discussion anymore would most likely never find the forum thread.I just tried, currently Google does not even list the ones I checked.

• For people who don't use DuoMe at all (yet!), being able to find these fora from DuoLingo probably can't be helped without co-operation from DuoLingo itself. It's also sad to hear that Google may not be properly surfacing DuoMe forum topics, but that we might be able to help improve from our end, maybe by making the 'sentence discussion' areas (for each target language and starting language pair) a little different.

  • First of all, each language pair should have it's own 'sentence discussion' area. (Esperanto from English didn't have one, and instead just had the sentence threads mixed in with the other discussions, until recently when I saw that French from English had one and I asked for one.)

  • The sentence discussion list page could contain more than just the simple list, for search engine indexability. I don't know much about that, but:

    • I suspect it might help if at top of each of those pages there were a text blurb reading something like "Continue discussions from the frozen DuoLingo forum, and have new ones on learning Esperanto from English, here! Kontinuu diskutojn de la frostigita forumo de DuoLingo, kaj havu novajn pri lerni Esperanton de la angla, cxi tie!".

    • It might also help for the default presentation of the list of sentence discussions to include all of them at once instead of having most of the sentences hidden behind pagination.

    • It might also be a good idea to have not sentence thread titles in not just the target language but also the starting language. (At least for Esperanto from English, the titles seem to always be in the target language (Esperanto), with just a little addendum to indicate in which direction DuoLingo asks for the translation (en-->eo, or eo-->en). This is in direct contrast to how the DuoLingo forum works, which is for the title to always be whichever sentence DuoLingo presents as the prompt (in other words the 'question').

[gmads]

That's right. The thread is created regardless of what one does afterward. If one does nothing an unanswered sentence thread is created —and that's why there can be unanswered sentences—, however, if one writes something the post is added to the thread, which is then moved to the respective language forum.

I think the term 'unanswered' is misleading here, actually. The posts made by 'sentence bot' contain a sentence and a translated version of the sentence, nothing unanswered. I would call that just un-commented-on, or (better English) unaddressed.

Beautiful. I vote for the latter.

I would say a sentence thread can only really be called 'unanswered' if, after the 'sentence bot' post, there is a human-entered post actually containing a question. ...and yet the way things work right now, if anyone adds a post to a sentence thread that thread gets taken out of the 'unanswered' pile!

The thread will be moved out whether the user posts a question, a useful comment or a useless comment —however funny it may be.

Right now the 'unanswered questions' area looks like somewhere a helpful person could dive in and help some fellow language learners.

That would seem to me a bit like trying to hunt a rabbit in a forest by just shooting around randomly.

On the "¿De verdad merecen la pena las discusiones sobre frases?" ("Are sentence discussions really worth it?") thread I answered: "On very rare occasions," and then I explained:

The intention behind the extension was good, but it seems to me that it has only led to an ever increasing amount of useless posts ("noise", as I already expressed it in another post), since they are published but [usually] without by a helpful question or comment.

So the question is, how can anyone help whoever created the thread if there is no accompanying comment nor question? That's why I suggested that the extension should create a thread only if the user actually writes anything, otherwise it should simply do nothing.

Anyway, given the numerous empty threads it seems that the objective is not that of receiving help but just throwing the sentences in Duome to "save" them. I do not see any other purpose behind —which, by itself, also seems useless. As I said in the referred post:

There are those who see this as something positive because they consider that it can function as some kind of catalog or compendium, but this would be as much as publicating random words, without rhyme or reason, and wanting to define them as being a dictionary. It is not.

[gmads]

All others who might have questions and cannot post them in Duolingo's sentence discussion anymore would most likely never find the forum thread.

Even if people are unaware of Duome, the comments at Duolingo are still there for anyone looking for an answer. However, there are some answers here and there that make reference to answers being given here —when a question or comment is made, and an answer is given, of course.

[...] would most likely never find the forum thread. I just tried, currently Google does not even list the ones I checked.

The forum engine (phpBB in Duome's case) settings allow Google to index the content, however, Google will almost certainly list those results in its n-thousand results page, that is, it is very unlikely that it will include them in its first 50 results pages. However, this does not mean one cannot find them, one only needs to learn a bit how to make the most of the search engine. When one wants to get the contents of a particular site one only needs to use the following search criteria:

site:the_address_of_the_site_to_be_searched the_term_being_searched

For example: site:forum.duome.eu horchata

[gmads]

• It's also sad to hear that Google may not be properly surfacing DuoMe forum topics [...]

It is just a matter of relevance, that's how the algorithm of Google's index/search engine works.

• [...] but that we might be able to help improve from our end, maybe by making the 'sentence discussion' areas (for each target language and starting language pair) a little different.

That would really have an effect on Google's indexing bot. If any, the recommended actions would only be of help to the users of Duome.

[Corinnebelle]

Looks like the sentences in sentences discussions are getting switched out regularly. [mention]gmads[/mention] mentioned it in Spanish and I see it occurs in Hebrew and Esperanto too. I don't know if moderators will manually fix that or not. I found 1 in English in the Hebrew course in the correct order, the rest of are always displaying the target language at the top and English at the bottom. [mention]duome[/mention] It shouldn't effect the link if we change the title, right? I guess that is one of those glitches.

Seems to me language code (en>eo) is code for the course learning Esperanto from English, not the individual sentence direction.

Unaddressed

Or inactive! Mightn't be the best suggestion!