You know you're fluent when...

[Corinnebelle]

An article from ef.edu

You know you're fluent in another language when... I think we had this conversation before on Duolingo, but it's always fun to read about it!

[gmads]

An article from ef.edu

You know you're fluent in another language when... I think we had this conversation before on Duolingo, but it's always fun to read about it!

I would definitely not include "humor" as an indication of fluency, unless that means understanding basic general jokes. For me this criteria has more to do with knowing about a particular culture and society than knowing about the language (which of course is a requisite). Just to make my case clear, would British humor be actually funny for someone that is fluent in English? What about Mexican humor for someone that is fluent in Spanish?

I would even say this goes hand in hand with the use of offensive language. For example —don't worry, I won't go into harsh words—, let's consider the word "boludo," which simply means that something has the shape of a ball or that has ball-shaped lumps in its surface... unless that word is used in Argentina, where it used to refer to someone that behaves stupidly or that is irresponsible. Thus, if someone tells me, ¡sos un boludo!, then that someone is telling me that I am stupid, or stubborn, or that I am behaving like so, eventhough for me it would be very very funny to hear that

For anyone wanting to learn about this word, please read the following article: Qué significa "boludo", and please, please, please, do watch the accompanying video, "Roberto Fontanarrosa y su defensa de las malas palabras, Rosario, 2004," it is a gem I don't know if what the article says is actually true, but it sounds interesting.

---

  ㆍenglish ㆍgeneral ㆍdebate

[pj1506]

...... you can confidently deal and settle any issue or problem or conflict over the phone with monolingual counterparts. Like disputing a utility bill etc...

[Pinta]

• you realize Google Translate sucks
• you don't get stuck in the middle of the page every 15 millisecond while you're reading a book
• you start talking in your head in your target language

[MoniqueMaRie]

An article from ef.edu

You know you're fluent in another language when... I think we had this conversation before on Duolingo, but it's always fun to read about it!

In the article there is the following passage:
"Now that you’re fluent, when you sit in a café or plaza, the surrounding conversations no longer wash over you like a fog. Instead, you can choose to actively listen in on the interesting details of the lives of others. "

I think when you speak fluently, you even overhear other people's conversations without choosing to actively listen to them - that always happens in my native language.
I think with English I still have to decide if I want to listen to such a conversation of strangers.
The last time I was in the US, I asked a German who has lived there for more than half her life if she now overhears conversations where she doesn't even try to listen, and she had to think about it. And I asked her if that still happens when she's back in Germany with German.

[gmads]

An article from ef.edu

You know you're fluent in another language when... I think we had this conversation before on Duolingo, but it's always fun to read about it!

In the article there is the following passage:
"Now that you’re fluent, when you sit in a café or plaza, the surrounding conversations no longer wash over you like a fog. Instead, you can choose to actively listen in on the interesting details of the lives of others. "

I think when you speak fluently, you even overhear other people's conversations without choosing to actively listen to them - that always happens in my native language.
I think with English I still have to decide if I want to listen to such a conversation of strangers.
The last time I was in the US, I asked a German who has lived there for more than half her life if she now overhears conversations where she doesn't even try to listen, and she had to think about it. And I asked her if that still happens when she's back in Germany with German.

So that "having to think about it" meant that she does have to try to actively listen to English conversations?

And what was her answer to your second question? I assume that in this case she didn't have to try and listen.

I would say that even in the native language one always needs to have a certain level of awareness to really listen. I could be at the table doing something on my laptop while someone else is watching TV and I definitely wouldn't know, at least not consciously, what is being said in the movie. I would need a minimal distraction to then listen to the flow of words. So I think that being really focused on something —instead of just being idle, for example when sitting alone in a cafe— does make a difference.

[MoniqueMaRie]

@gmads : her answer was that it happens to her in both languages now: overhearing without even actively listening - for me the sign that she is fluent in both languages

[Deleted User 4833]

• you realize Google Translate sucks
• you don't get stuck in the middle of the page every 15 millisecond while you're reading a book
• you start talking in your head in your target language

Google translate doesn't always suck. It's true that some translations are weird or wrong, but I've seen many recently that are correct.

[MoniqueMaRie]

Google translate doesn't always suck. It's true that some translations are weird or wrong, but I've seen many recently that are correct.

Nevertheless I prefer deepl.com for English and French because the results (DE-EN, DE-FR, EN-FR) are better than with google translate.
It's different for chinese: deepl.com is nearly useless there (DE-CN, EN-CN). Here the results of google translate are much better.

...and yes, I think it's good that I know these languages well enough to be able to judge the results of the two translators and to change the results if I feel the need for it.

[Ian768564]

For French, maybe when you can read Le Canard Enchaîné and understand the puns.

[MoniqueMaRie]

For French, maybe when you can read Le Canard Enchaîné and understand the puns.

That could be interesting. But I would probably have to keep asking French people for support.

[Thomas.Heiss]

In the German->French Duolingo forum there were single page translation threads about reading specific French books from the author Jules Verne.

You can probably find them here if they got archived:
https://duolingo.hobune.stream/

daKangka had given the direct links in another thread to multiple sub forums as the entry point (e.g. German instead of English forums).

Edit: Found it, here it is (De->Fr): https://duolingo.hobune.stream/topic/879

[SweNedGuy]

You ' re fluent when: you prefer watching a foreign movie in the original version rather than dubbed and/or you don't read the subtitles.

[XeO3]

When go into a grocery store, look around at all the foods & their names in your target language pop into your head automatically.

[Cifi]

Yes, I think you're right about this automatic part, at least for me it's like that. E.g. after reading or writing in English and taking up my current knitting pattern again, I caught myself suddenly counting stitches in English instead of in German. Unfortunately I never got that far with Spanish up to now.

[Cifi]

But, on the other hand, things deeply buried in my memory sonetimes popped up again, e.g. in a community garden project when I met a Spanish speaker, a lot of vocabulary emerged that I kind of didn't even know I knew it.

[Dana_Dany Danuta]

When go into a grocery store, look around at all the foods & their names in your target language pop into your head automatically.

Yes, it's true, that's what's happening!
Our brain works like an automaton and automatically switches to another language you know.

[Zsuzsi97194]

You think in that language and your syntax is good enough to be well understood. I don’t think you have to be a UN simultaneous translator to be fluent though that would be a great achievement ent.

[eI000yo]

You think in that language and your syntax is good enough to be well understood. I don’t think you have to be a UN simultaneous translator to be fluent though that would be a great achievement ent.

Thinking: Interesting but not true: You don't need a language to think. They are two different features. Evidence? Some people who are deaf from birth do not speak and are not stupid people at all.
And you can translate your thoughts to a learning language even if you speak it badly. Nothing to do with being fluent.

[Corinnebelle]

@eI000yo How much of our thought process is in language and how much is not? This is intriguing.

[eI000yo]

@eI000yo How much of our thought process is in language and how much is not? This is intriguing.

One example: https://www.livescience.com/can-we-thin ... t-language

The same goes for writing: languages ​​do not need to be written down.
But talking to yourself or writing down your thoughts can be very helpful.

[Explorer]

One of the things that strikes me the most when I travel, is the reactions of the locals when you try to speak their language. I've noticed that there are at least three levels of reaction:

• Level 1: Surprise and admiration. People are very surprised, they smile at you and tell you that you speak their language incredibly well, even if all you can say is "hello". This happened to me in Indonesia and Tanzania (trying to speak Swahili). At this level, you feel like a real language God, omniscient and unstoppable. You have the impression that you can speak any language without much effort. Fluency? Easy peasy!

• Level 2: Indifference. People don't care. They may ask you where you're from because of your accent, but after that, they'll continue speaking as if nothing happened. I've experienced this in countries like France or Germany. At this level, you feel a mixture of satisfaction and disappointment. Satisfaction because you know you can communicate with natives, but disappointment because no one has made a big deal about it. I'm not expecting people to start doing backflips of excitement, but oh boy, come on!

• Level 3: Resistance. It's as if people don't want you to speak their tongue. They make a strange face, as if they couldn't process that you really want to practice their language. Then they switch to English immediately. This happened to me in the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries. At this level, you feel like it's not worth learning those languages anymore. People won't appreciate your effort and will speak English as soon as they notice that your accent isn't absolutely perfect and flawless.

Note: This is based solely on my experience. You could well experience entirely different reactions on your trips!

[eI000yo]

(…)

• Level 3: Resistance. (..)People won't appreciate your effort and will speak English as soon as they notice that your accent isn't absolutely perfect and flawless.(…)

Excellent analysis.
But you must keep in mind that the locals are not your teachers. They will help you in the language in which they feel more comfortable.

[wiederbelebt]

Level 3: Resistance. It's as if people don't want you to speak their tongue. They make a strange face, as if they couldn't process that you really want to practice their language. Then they switch to English immediately. This happened to me in the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries. At this level, you feel like it's not worth learning those languages anymore. People won't appreciate your effort and will speak English as soon as they notice that your accent isn't absolutely perfect and flawless.

The irony is, their English is usually terrible. The difference is, New Yorkers (I can't speak for the rest of the English-speaking world) are incredibly tolerant of butchered attempts at English. We smile and nod, as if the speaker is totally comprehensible, because we know our forefathers struggled just as hard, and we genuinely appreciate the effort. When I encounter "Level 3", I leave. There are plenty of other places to spend my money.

[MoniqueMaRie]

• Level 2: Indifference. People don't care. They may ask you where you're from because of your accent, but after that, they'll continue speaking as if nothing happened. I've experienced this in countries like France or Germany. At this level, you feel a mixture of satisfaction and disappointment. Satisfaction because you know you can communicate with natives, but disappointment because no one has made a big deal about it. I'm not expecting people to start doing backflips of excitement, but oh boy, come on!

Wenn Du für Dein gutes Deutsch gebauchpinselt werden willst, dann sprich Deutsch nach einer Einleitung wie "Lassen Sie es mich auf Deutsch sagen..." oder "ich will ein wenig mein Deutsch üben ". Wenn Du dann fließend loslegst, wirst Du bestimmt für Dein gutes Deutsch gelobt.

In Deutschland gibt es viele Ausländer, die hier schon lange leben. Wenn man diese für ihr Deutsch lobt, sind sie eher darüber beleidigt, dass man überhaupt noch bemerkt, dass Deutsch nicht ihre Muttersprache ist.
Wenn mich jemand in Deutschland auf Deutsch anspricht, dann antworte ich auf Deutsch, ohne viel Aufsehen darum zu machen.

[Explorer]

Excellent analysis.
But you must keep in mind that the locals are not your teachers. They will help you in the language in which they feel more comfortable.

I know, I know. It's not like I'm looking for free lessons or anything. Just picture this: you meet a couple of foreigners who come from far away, and they start speaking to you in Galician, a language they've been studying for a while because they really love Galicia and want to learn more about its culture. What would be your reaction? Would you act like nothing happened and respond to them in English right away? Well, I don't know. It's not that it bothers me. I mean, I don't want to waste anyone's time. But as I said, it just feels a bit odd to me.

The irony is, their English is usually terrible. The difference is, New Yorkers (I can't speak for the rest of the English-speaking world) are incredibly tolerant of butchered attempts at English. We smile and nod, as if the speaker is totally comprehensible, because we know our forefathers struggled just as hard, and we genuinely appreciate the effort. When I encounter "Level 3", I leave. There are plenty of other places to spend my money.

The truth is I've never had any issues speaking English in the US, even though I used to butcher the language as if there were no tomorrow. Much more than I do today, believe me. If you want to learn a language, at some point you have to step out of the books and apps and start talking to native speakers directly. Obviously, not everyone will be willing to talk with you, I get that of course. I think it's more of a cultural thing than a matter of politeness. In some countries it's just harder to practice the language with the locals.

Wenn mich jemand in Deutschland auf Deutsch anspricht, dann antworte ich auf Deutsch, ohne viel Aufsehen darum zu machen.

Wenn ein Deutscher nach Portugal kommt und mit mir auf Portugiesisch spricht, würde ich Purzelbäume schlagen und ihn auf ein kühles Bier einladen

[MoniqueMaRie]

In some countries it's just harder to practice the language with the locals.

My last time in France, I simply didn't react when someone spoke to me in English. Since I'm not a native English speaker, I can always pretend that I understand less English than I do.
Then they have to speak French (or German) with me. Most of the time it was French then.

I have also found that it is the particularly touristy places where you are immediately spoken to in English. In Italy, I had no chance of stammering Italian in Florence. They immediately and mercilessly spoke English with me.
It was different in small villages in Italy. There I was helped to find the Italian words when I offered the French or Latin ones trying to pronounce them Italian.

[MoniqueMaRie]

Wenn ein Deutscher nach Portugal kommt und mit mir auf Portugiesisch spricht, würde ich Purzelbäume schlagen und ihn auf ein kühles Bier einladen

Wahrscheinlich kommt es seltener vor, dass ein Deutscher Portugiesisch spricht als umgekehrt. Das wäre aber fast ein Grund, Portugiesisch zu lernen. Auf die Purzelbäume wäre ich neugierig und ein kühles Bier kommt immer gut an...

In jedem Fall würde ich es für ein Zeichen halten, dass ich dem "fließend sprechen" schon sehr nahe komme, wenn man es nicht mehr für notwendig hält, mich für meine Kenntnisse zu loben = in any case, I would take it as a sign that I'm getting close to fluency when people no longer feel the need to praise me for my knowledge
(to come back to the subject of this topic)

[eI000yo]

(…)
Just picture this: you meet a couple of foreigners who come from far away, and they start speaking to you in Galician, a language they've been studying for a while because they really love Galicia and want to learn more about its culture. What would be your reaction? Would you act like nothing happened and respond to them in English right away? Well, I don't know. It's not that it bothers me. I mean, I don't want to waste anyone's time. But as I said, it just feels a bit odd to me.
(…)

I moved to Asturias a long time ago and here the regional language is not even spoken in urban areas. English is not the lingua franca but Spanish. Sometimes I have heard young people speaking English with foreigners.
In Galicia and Western Asturias, Portuguese speaking people are usually answered in Galician because both languages ​​are mutually intelligible. If people didn't understand Galician, they switched to Spanish, at least in my area. I don't know the current attitude. But the people are bilingual and both languages ​​are mixed, some speak Galician, others speak Spanish. Even a person can switch to the other language in the middle of a sentence.
And the vocabulary or grammar is not standard Spanish sometimes. A really complicated situation to understand if you are not a Galician or Asturian person.