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Drop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

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SeanBurlington
Great Britain

Drop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by SeanBurlington »

I'm new to Duolingo and have never been any good at learning languages

I don't know what the dative case is or what all this declension is about

but I'm enjoying myself learning Greek for no good reason

The problem I'm having is that when I get too many new words or concepts at once I can't keep track

But if I use the drop down hints it's pretty easy to choose which words to select

on the other hand the drop downs don't tell me why this is the right form of the right word

I enjoy how things don't translate exactly - and you can't always say the exact same thing in English and in Greek

So my question is partly where do I get the extra info (I wish the official forums still existed)

and how do I best answer the questions so that the AI can help me ?

Should I deliberately get questions wrong where I can figure out the answer from the clues (and things like where there are a list of words to choose and the main one I'm stuck on I can tell because it is the start of a sentence and capitalised)

I could try typing the answers - but Greek makes that extra hard and I didn't start that way (I wish I could go back to the beginning but only for translations TO Greek)

I would also like some extra practice on specific bits (like I still confuse the different forms of "the" and "a")

I guess this is just the problem of a non-linguist learning Greek from English - but it feels like Duolingo could be giving me better practise on these and I'm just wondering if there are any tips on how to get the AI to be more helpful ?

Last edited by Corinnebelle on Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spelling correction
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John Little
Brazil

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by John Little »

Often the drop down hints are completely wrong for the example. Do you read the tips before you start.?

John661162

User avatar
IceVajal
Germany

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by IceVajal »

I'm not learning Greek, but in my opinion Duolingo isn't teaching you grammar very well. I learn Russian and use other sources for grammar. Perhaps this website will help you getting a grip on Greek grammar....

https://www.greekgrammar.eu/

N :de: - B2 :us: - Beginner :ru: (Busuu: B1) - :netherlands:

water_color

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by water_color »

Idk about Greek, but generally at levels that are higher than Level 1 Duo gives you some sentences without hints. So if you still have the old tree, not the new part, you probabky should master every skill to higher levels until you are sure that you've got enough practice in translating TO Greek without using hints.

If you already have the new path, you can try Legendary challenges for the parts of the path that are already completed by you. In these challenges there are no hints at all.

Also, read Tips and Notes for every skill before doing it.

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Drop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by Corinnebelle »

[mention]water_color[/mention] Do you mean listening exercises? They always give me hints except in legendary. But the hints aren't always correct! :?

[mention]SeanBurlington[/mention] Might I suggest using the sentence discussions? Someone else might have asked what you want to know and you can read that. Usually they'll discuss any quirks a word or the sentence has, but if you need more help consider installing the sentence discussion extension and getting help that way.

If you need more help with certain areas, consider practicing those skills you need help with Duome. If you put your Duolingo username in as the user, it should display the skill tree.

You can see mine here. Clicking on one of those skills lets me practice that. Assuming you the new path, otherwise you can just use strengthen for each skill.

You can take a Greek typing course if you want to be able to type in Greek. I imagine there are courses out there and the Greek forum probably tells you how to get a Greek keyboard on your computer. I do Hebrew so I had to learn to type it too.

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

water_color

Re: Drop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by water_color »

Corinnebelle wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:52 pm

@water_color Do you mean listening exercises? They always give me hints except in legendary. But the hints aren't always correct! :?

I'm not sure I remember it right but sometimes exercises without hints appeared even in regular lessons (at levels higher than L1). Not very often though. That's for the browser version, idk about the app.

SeanBurlington
Great Britain

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by SeanBurlington »

John Little wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:54 am

Often the drop down hints are completely wrong for the example. Do you read the tips before you start.?

If the hints are wrong that really isn't going to help me :-(

I read the tips but they don't help me so much - both tips and sentence discussions assume I understand what "nominative" means - and while I can google it - it is still an alien concept

This is why I'm wondering if there is a way to get some hints that don't just tell me the answer

especially as when the drop down hints tell me the answer I don't always understand why that is the right form - the sentence discussions often focus on other details (like where the stresses appear on a word)

I think Duolingo is great - but I also feel like I just hit a wall.

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Drop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by Corinnebelle »

[mention]SeanBurlington[/mention] You can always ask a questions here about nominatives in the Greek forum. Whatever you need to know. Or ask questions about a certain skill.

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

Cifi

Re: Drop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by Cifi »

[mention]SeanBurlington[/mention]: I think I know what you mean. In this course, the hints that pop up on hover often display the complete sentence, not word by word like in most other courses. And I agree that the grammar tips are completely different from other courses, they seem to try to cover everything there might be to say about some topic, and they use more technical terms to describe grammar than others.

When I was doing Greek a while ago (I paused it now in favour of French), I read them, but I also tried to figure out on my own what was new in a skill, and how things relate to each other. Take a look at it if you want (http://cifi77.bplaced.net/notes.html), but I use some grammar terms, too.

And I found the Greek forum an excellent place to ask questions or have something confirmed.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

O.Zoe
Greece

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by O.Zoe »

SeanBurlington wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:49 pm

I read the tips but they don't help me so much - both tips and sentence discussions assume I understand what "nominative" means - and while I can google it - it is still an alien concept

I'm not sure whether it's possible for someone to teach a language without using grammar terminology. I'm afraid there are two options; either learn the terminology you don't know step by step so that you'll be able to understand your target language or just learn whatever you can, by heart, without questioning it. :/

The tips on the Greek course are not very good, in my opinion. Reading always the sentence discussions might help you, though. Sometimes, there are useful explanations there.

You can ask any question you'd like on the Greek sub-forum here. We'll try our best to explain in a clear way. : )

---

SeanBurlington wrote:

I would also like some extra practice on specific bits (like I still confuse the different forms of "the" and "a")

Have you tried keeping notes, writing down the different forms of the articles etc.? Duolingo's philosophy is to expose the learner to the target language (grammar & vocabulary) through sentences and not through grammar explanations. The learner obviously makes mistakes, repeats the same sentences and, at some point, they figure out a pattern and "understand" how the language functions. So, personal notes are really important in my opinion. Duolingo can be useful to some extent, but then we need to do our part (extra studying, practicing) outside of the app/site.

🇬🇷 N :gb: C1 :de: B1 :it: A1

SeanBurlington
Great Britain

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by SeanBurlington »

O.Zoe wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:39 pm

I'm not sure whether it's possible for someone to teach a language without using grammar terminology. I'm afraid there are two options; either learn the terminology you don't know step by step so that you'll be able to understand your target language or just learn whatever you can, by heart, without questioning it. :/

Yes - The thing is that English doesn't use many of the concepts needed in Greek and most English is learned I guess just by heart without questioning

Here's a list of rules most native speakers use without being aware of https://www.oxford-royale.com/articles/ ... -speakers/

I'm keen to learn the grammar I need - but where do I learn what words like nominative mean ?

The dictionary isn't very helpful https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... nominative

This kinda makes sense https://www.grammar-monster.com/glossar ... e_case.htm but isn't enough on it's own.

If anyone could point me to a good explanation of these cases for English students of modern Greek - that would be very helpful.

Mostly what I have found assumes the reader already understands cases and simply wants to know the specifics as they relate to Greek - I need to learn both.

O.Zoe
Greece

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by O.Zoe »

SeanBurlington wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:34 pm

I'm keen to learn the grammar I need - but where do I learn what words like nominative mean ?

Grammatical cases are categories of the different forms that some words take (nouns, articles, adjectives etc.). Each category usually has specific functions in a sentence.

The nominative case is used mainly for the subject of a sentence, i.e. the person/thing that is doing the action.
Αυτός πίνει καφέ. (He is drinking coffee)
Ο άντρας πίνει καφέ. (The man is drinking coffee)
Who is doing the action? -> αυτός (he) / ο άντρας (the man)

Compare the above sentences with the following ones
Εγώ τον βλέπω. (I see him)
Εγώ βλέπω τον άντρα. (I see the man)
Who is doing the action? -> εγώ (I)
Who is affected by the action? -> τον (him) / τον άντρα (the man)
The person/thing that is affected by the action is called "direct object". For that, we use accusative case.

nominative: αυτός (he), ο άντρας
accusative: αυτόν/τον (him), τον άντρα

In English, you would say neither "Him is drinking coffee" nor "I see he". Each form (he/him) has a specific syntactical role.

There are some other instances in which nominative and accusative cases are used, but for now you could have in mind that nominative is used for the subject of a sentence and accusative for the direct object. After lots of practice, you'll start getting used to it and you'll add new information.

Here are some useful links. I hope they help!
Greek grammar - cases
Modern Greek grammar for absolute beginners

🇬🇷 N :gb: C1 :de: B1 :it: A1

User avatar
LICA98
Finland

Re: Dop down "hints" give me too much and not enough

Post by LICA98 »

SeanBurlington wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:34 pm
O.Zoe wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:39 pm

I'm not sure whether it's possible for someone to teach a language without using grammar terminology. I'm afraid there are two options; either learn the terminology you don't know step by step so that you'll be able to understand your target language or just learn whatever you can, by heart, without questioning it. :/

Yes - The thing is that English doesn't use many of the concepts needed in Greek and most English is learned I guess just by heart without questioning

Here's a list of rules most native speakers use without being aware of https://www.oxford-royale.com/articles/ ... -speakers/

I'm keen to learn the grammar I need - but where do I learn what words like nominative mean ?

The dictionary isn't very helpful https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... nominative

This kinda makes sense https://www.grammar-monster.com/glossar ... e_case.htm but isn't enough on it's own.

If anyone could point me to a good explanation of these cases for English students of modern Greek - that would be very helpful.

Mostly what I have found assumes the reader already understands cases and simply wants to know the specifics as they relate to Greek - I need to learn both.

you can try here
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary

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