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Book translations

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John Little
Brazil

Book translations

Post by John Little »

Stasia's post in the Quick Brown Fox thread about book translations reminded me that I have read a few translated books and have wondered the same thing. How much of the translator is in the translation and how much of the original author is lost?

Ive read Spanish and Japanese books in their English translation and our son's mother in law has read Joyce's Ulyses translated into Portuguese.

I have tried to read Ulyses several times myself and only succeeded recently. But that made me wonder if Ulyses in portugues could possibly be the same

John661162

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Explorer
Portugal

Re: Book translations

Post by Explorer »

We have to assume that there's no perfect translation. So every time you read a translation, no matter how good it is, you will be missing out on part of the author's original work. The story of the book is the same. Sure. The difference is in the nuances, the details that make a masterpiece of universal literature different from a random TV manual.

I have read Don Quixote a couple of times in Spanish. Well, you only have to read the first chapter of the book in English to realize how much has been lost in translation. There are simply too many expressions that cannot be properly translated. They have to be adapted in order to be understood by native English speakers, losing the original meaning and all the cultural references in the process.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Book translations

Post by Corinnebelle »

You lose the connation of words. In the Hebrew Bible you look up a word and you find it has many meanings, but of course only one can be translated. Hebrew is such a rich and such and old language, that each word is kind of like pictograph of a kind of action. How one transfers that whole sense to another language I have no idea. The Jews have different understandings of what the words mean than the ones we have in our English Bibles, so you know there is more to words than one thinks. It is not easy to learn two languages to the point of being able to sense those nuances in both languages. Yes, we can take an equivalent word or a near a translation as possible. But in order to have the sense of those words that is expressed by the emotions those words evoke in the reader translated into another language is very hard.

A smiling face in America is something friendly, in China the friendly ones don't smile. A smiling face means you are devious. This was back in time a bit when this happened. But cultures are different and the way they express things is different. Some people seem to think in a more literal sense, others are metaphorical. It is hard to understand the different ways of thinking of different cultures. I do think translation to open us up to different patterns of communication and thought. Culture is like flavor, without culture there is no salt and life does not have rich such rich meaning.

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Explorer
Portugal

Re: Book translations

Post by Explorer »

[mention]Corinnebelle[/mention] If I'm not mistaken the Quran should only be read in Classical Arabic. Only the original version is the real thing. Translations, at best, are merely guides so that those who do not speak Arabic can understand the broad lines of the sacred text. Furthermore in terms of style, translating the Quran is like trying to translate a great poem. The beauty of its meter and rhyme would be inevitably lost.

I hope our muslim friends will correct me if I'm wrong ;)

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Corinnebelle

Re: Book translations

Post by Corinnebelle »

Explorer wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:03 pm

@Corinnebelle If I'm not mistaken the Quran should only be read in Classical Arabic. Only the original version is the real thing. Translations, at best, are merely guides so that those who do not speak Arabic can understand the broad lines of the sacred text. Furthermore in terms of style, translating the Quran is like trying to translate a great poem. The beauty of its meter and rhyme would be inevitably lost.

I hope our muslim friends will correct me if I'm wrong ;)

What little I know of Hebrew, there are more alphabetical acrostic psalms than Psalm 119. There are wordplays in the Aramaic New Testament too that are lost in translation too. I imagine there are wordplays in the Old Testament as well.

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John238922
Australia

Re: Book translations

Post by John238922 »

[mention]John Little[/mention] Thanks for opening this thread about [mention]Stasia[/mention]' s post. I was feeling guilty about thread drift in the Jumble thread.

John Little wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:38 am

Stasia's post in the Quick Brown Fox thread about book translations reminded me that I have read a few translated books and have wondered the same thing. How much of the translator is in the translation and how much of the original author is lost?

I thought this Wikipedia article was very good
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

Particularly the section on Theories and metaphrase (literal) and paraphrase (free)

Translations of books can be regarded as either good or poor books, or good or poor translations.

Some genres will be infinitely more difficult than others.

It's asking a lot to expect a translator to be as inspired as a great author, although it sometimes happens.

I think it's pretty much unforgivable if a translator loses any of the original author, except perhaps, where the translator misses something obscure. When a translator starts leaving stuff out they become an editor, not a translator.

Sometimes a translator might be at a loss for an apt translation and become a little wordy, trying to get something across. That's ok, or at leastforgiveable.
See the examples of the translations of the Don Quixote first sentence here
https://welovetranslations.com/2022/03/ ... te-part-1/

John Little wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:38 am

Ive read Spanish and Japanese books in their English translation and our son's mother in law has read Joyce's Ulyses translated into Portuguese.

I have tried to read Ulyses several times myself and only succeeded recently. But that made me wonder if Ulyses in portugues could possibly be the same

Surely not.

Given how deeply rooted Ulysses is in 1900s Dublin, what would you do? Move the whole thing to Lisbon?

I wouldn't mind seeing an English translation of Ulyses some time <g>

ElmerRamone
United States of America

Re: Book translations

Post by ElmerRamone »

I've been reading Raymond Chandler's 'The Little Sister' in Spanish and using an English version as my frame of reference for when I get stuck. There's no way any translation could be perfect. Just the little nuances and the slang, to say nothing of the way the language was spoken in a certain time period, and the subtle jokes could never translate with the same flavor. I have discovered a new respect for literary translators. You definitely have to have a good ear for both languages, and also a feeling for the author's intent and style. Seems like a mammoth undertaking.

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Explorer
Portugal

Re: Book translations

Post by Explorer »

A good translation can be a work of art in itself, especially when the vocabulary and expressions are already out of use. In that regard, it has to be acknowledged the huge difficulty involved in translating a book. However, I still think that no translation can ever surpass the original work.

But be that as it may, the truth is that we need translations if we want to enjoy some of the greatest books of all time, for the simple fact that nobody is able to learn all the languages in the world to read everything in original version. It is what it is and it's better than nothing.

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MustafaOuz526752

Re: Book translations

Post by MustafaOuz526752 »

Explorer wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:03 pm

Corinnebelle If I'm not mistaken the Quran should only be read in Classical Arabic. Only the original version is the real thing. Translations, at best, are merely guides so that those who do not speak Arabic can understand the broad lines of the sacred text. Furthermore in terms of style, translating the Quran is like trying to translate a great poem. The beauty of its meter and rhyme would be inevitably lost.

The Turkish Qoran includes two parts for that reason: translation and exegesis. The translator tries to keep his work as literal as possible to show how lyrical the Qoran is with its poetic language and rich idioms. Then the eisegete thoroughly breaks down what is meant verse by verse.

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