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Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it) Topic is solved

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Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

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Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io.

en: I love it when you smile, especially if the reason is me.

Duolingo forum topic: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/564265

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Sofia222677

Re: Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

Post by Sofia222677 »

This use of "amare" is a calque from English, which is utterly unnatural in Italian.
To make it sound (more) natural, you have to add a direct object and change the verb to "adorare": Ti adoro quando sorridi.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

Post by gmads »

Sofia222677 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:43 pm

To make it sound (more) natural, you have to add a direct object and change the verb to "adorare": Ti adoro quando sorridi.

With that change, however, the sense or meaning of the sentence is changed.

  • I love it when... this describes the inner feeling caused in the speaker, but this feeling is not directed toward anyone, just like saying, "I feel sad" (as opposed to saying, "I feel sad for you")
  • I love you when... here the feeling of love is directed toward the person smiling

Couldn't it be translated it as, "adoro quando sorridi" instead? Without the "ti," just using the verb "adorare" in an intransitive way, as in, "adoro andare alla piaggia?"

Or mabye just as, "mi piace veramente quando sorridi?"

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Sofia222677

Re: Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

Post by Sofia222677 »

gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

With that change, however, the sense or meaning of the sentence is changed.

  • I love it when... this describes the inner feeling caused in the speaker, but this feeling is not directed toward anyone, just like saying, "I feel sad" (as opposed to saying, "I feel sad for you")
  • I love you when... here the feeling of love is directed toward the person smiling

I'm aware of the shift in emphasis and nuance. I tried to come up with something with the same structure as in English but I couldn't think of any phrasing that would sound natural in Italian.

gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Couldn't it be translated it as, "adoro quando sorridi" instead?

I also thought of that (and I must have heard it sometimes at a colloquial level), but it doesn't strike me as grammatical. I've researched in dictionaries a bit, but found nothing that would back up such a construction.

gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Without the "ti," just using the verb "adorare" in an intransitive way, as in, "adoro andare alla piaggia?"

I argue that in that sentence, "adorare" is still transitive, its object being "andare in spiaggia" (which is what is called "proposizione oggettiva" in Italian, basically a subordinate clause acting as a direct object).

"Adorare" can also be intransitive, meaning "to pray" (but it's archaic).

gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Or mabye just as, "mi piace veramente quando sorridi?"

This phrasing is the closest to the English one without sounding unnatural, yeah.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

Post by gmads »

Sofia222677 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:16 pm
gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Couldn't it be translated it as, "adoro quando sorridi" instead?

I also thought of that (and I must have heard it sometimes at a colloquial level), but it doesn't strike me as grammatical. I've researched in dictionaries a bit, but found nothing that would back up such a construction.

gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Without the "ti," just using the verb "adorare" in an intransitive way, as in, "adoro andare alla piaggia?"

I argue that in that sentence, "adorare" is still transitive, its object being "andare in spiaggia" (which is what is called "proposizione oggettiva" in Italian, basically a subordinate clause acting as a direct object).

"Adorare" can also be intransitive, meaning "to pray" (but it's archaic).

Uffa! You are right. My mistake... twice.

I started with the sentence "adoro andare alla piaggia," and then thought that "adoro" was acting as a modal verb used in an intransitive way, which led me to erroneously assume that I could then say "adoro quando sorridi."

I also failed to check if "adorare" could be used intransitively, and what its meaning would be then. I just checked, and it is the same in Spanish: "adorar" is transitive, and when intransitive it mean to pray.

In Spanish we have a very good intransitive verb for cases like this: "encantar." When used intransitively, this verb means: "to like very much."
-- me encanta cuando sonríes (I love it when you smile)
-- me encantas cuando sonríes (you enchant me when you smile)

Maybe the equivalent Italian intransitive pronominal verb " incantarsi" could be used then?
-- mi incanta quando sorridi (it charms me when you smile)
-- mi incanti quando sorridi (you enchant me when you smile)

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Sofia222677

Re: Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

Post by Sofia222677 »

gmads wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:51 pm

In Spanish we have a very good intransitive verb for cases like this: "encantar." When used intransitively, this verb means: "to like very much."
-- me encanta cuando sonríes (I love it when you smile)
-- me encantas cuando sonríes (you enchant me when you smile)

Maybe the equivalent Italian intransitive pronominal verb " incantarsi" could be used then?
-- mi incanta quando sorridi (it charms me when you smile)
-- mi incanti quando sorridi (you enchant me when you smile)

It should be "Mi incanto quanto..." when it's used as a pronominal verb.

You can say "Mi incanti quando sorridi", whereas "Mi incanta quando..." sounds off because I doubt the clause introduced by "quando" can be a "proposizione soggettiva" (a clause acting as the subject); usually quando-clauses are "proposizioni temporali".

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Amo quando sorridi, specialmente se il motivo sono io. (en → it)

Post by gmads »

gmads wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:51 pm

Maybe the equivalent Italian intransitive pronominal verb " incantarsi" could be used then?
-- mi incanta quando sorridi (it charms me when you smile)
-- mi incanti quando sorridi (you enchant me when you smile)

Sofia222677 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:12 pm

It should be "Mi incanto quanto..." when it's used as a pronominal verb.

Sorry, I should have referenced the verb "incantare," not "incantarsi." No, it does not work with the pronominal as it strays quite from the intended meaning: "I enchant myself (?) when you smile."

Sofia222677 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:12 pm

You can say "Mi incanti quando sorridi"

Ok. Back on track with "incantare." This would be on the same line as "ti adoro quando sorridi," that is, close but not on the spot.

Sofia222677 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:12 pm

whereas "Mi incanta quando..." sounds off

From what I understand, the verb "incantare," just as a few others like "interessare" o "mancare," is a verb that follows the same construction as the verb "piacere," so if "mi piace quando sorridi" is a valid construct:

Sofia222677 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:16 pm
gmads wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Or mabye just as, "mi piace veramente quando sorridi?"

This phrasing is the closest to the English one without sounding unnatural, yeah.

then "mi incanta quando sorridi" should be a perfectly fine expression, at least if I correctly understand the following acception of the verb Incantare:

  • 2. fig. Disporre ad un atteggiamento incondizionato di ammirazione e di favore ("to put in a state of mind for an unconditional attitude of admiration and favor")
Sofia222677 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:12 pm

because I doubt the clause introduced by "quando" can be a "proposizione soggettiva" (a clause acting as the subject); usually quando-clauses are "proposizioni temporali".

In English, subject/object pronouns have to be explicit: "I love it when you smile," but not in Italian: "Mi piace quando sorridi."

What does "it" refer to in the English sentence? Based on the clause: "when you smile," it should be clear that "it" then refers to "the sensation you make me feel:"

I love it when you smile = I love the feeling you make me feel when you smile.

I would venture and say that it is the same in Italian, except that in here the pronoun is missing, so perhaps the culprit for making the Italian sentence sound off with "incantare" is because the direct object is not explicitly declared:

Mi incanta quando sorridi = Mi incanta la sensazione che mi fai provare quando sorridi.


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