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How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Moderator: Explorer

User avatar
Explorer
Portugal

How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by Explorer »

To create a topic here you need to use the Duome browser extension, currently in open beta, along with the desktop version of Duolingo.

Instructions:

luo-ning wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:03 pm

How to install:

  1. Install Tampermonkey
  2. Restart your browser
  3. Go to ext/luoning/sentencediscussions/styles/ ... pt.user.js and install the userscript
  4. You should now see a "DUOME" button next to most Duolingo challenges after you solve them, like this:
    ![duome_btn.PNG](https://i.postimg.cc/Kjzfb5vx/screenshot-303.png)
  5. When you click it, a topic will be created in the Sentence Discussions subforum that you can reply to, or if one already exists for that sentence, you'll be taken there.

Note that not every sentence has a translation or a corresponding discussion on the Duolingo forum, which is why you won't always see those elements.

Credits: [mention]luo-ning[/mention]

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Upbeat 88
Mexico

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by Upbeat 88 »

cool helpfull

User avatar
EranBarLev
Israel

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by EranBarLev »

I noticed that several double SDs that I created yesterday have been deleted.

luo-ning wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:39 am
Basler Biker wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:37 am

Notice that for the same Source/Target language duo, there can be 2 discussions in duolingo, hence also in DSD.

Hmm, interesting. Might consolidate these later, but for now they should remain as two separate topics.

luo-ning wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:56 am

@Basler Biker Overall it'd be best if moderators avoid changing anything about the bot-created topics manually (except for replying to them), though simply moving them to a different subforum should be fine. The reason is that any manual changes made now might complicate any future automatic migration. For example, it's possible (not thoroughly tested) that manually deleting or merging the topics might lead to "orphan" metadata, which will cause the extension to simply show "page not found" instead of recreating the topic correctly.

Well, now we're there. :( [mention]luo-ning[/mention], maybe it's time to test that thoroughly?

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User avatar
luo-ning

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by luo-ning »

EranBarLev wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:55 am

I noticed that several double SDs that I created yesterday have been deleted.

I don't think they can have been deleted, unless manually deleted by a mod. What's possible is that there's a bug in the implementation or an error in the forum ID list that's sent them to a subforum that doesn't exist. I'll look into it, in the meantime if you see it happen again could you paste the URL to the topic (not-found page) here?

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User avatar
Explorer
Portugal

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by Explorer »

EranBarLev wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:55 am

I noticed that several double SDs that I created yesterday have been deleted.

I deleted all duplicate discussions manually. I think it may be an issue for learners to have different threads to discuss the same sentence. One of the most useful aspects of SD on Duolingo was that you had not to wait for an answer, because someone had probably already answered the question before (sometimes since many years before). That couldn't be possible if we have multiple open threads. It should be One sentence = One thread.

[mention]luo-ning[/mention]I don't know if our dear Sentence Bot can do something about that (redirecting to an existing thread instead of creating a new one all the time).

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EranBarLev
Israel

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by EranBarLev »

Explorer wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:59 am

@luo-ningI don't know if our dear Sentence Bot can do something about that (redirecting to an existing thread instead of creating a new one all the time).

It can and it does, I've checked that. It creates a duplicate thread because there are 2 SDs on Duolingo, one for PT→EN and another for EN→PT. I've also noticed that some exercises have no DISCUSS button, and then the topic is created without any link to Duolingo, so there might even be 3 topics for a single sentence.

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User avatar
luo-ning

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by luo-ning »

Ah OK, hopefully any "orphan" sentence discussion metadata has been cleaned up too, as I did add a database-level constraint that should ensure this. All that means is that if someone recreates SDs for those challenges, the duplicate topic will be re-created.

Eventually I'll probably add a way of automatically consolidating topics with identical sentences (i.e. topics for which there are already 2 SDs on the Duolingo forums), but that's for a future update.

🦀 Pensando en la inmortalidad del cangrejo 🏴‍☠️ Flags Are Not Languages

User avatar
EranBarLev
Israel

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by EranBarLev »

luo-ning wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 7:50 am

could you paste the URL to the topic (not-found page) here?

For example:
viewtopic.php?t=3895-eles-não-são-pequenos-en-pt
viewtopic.php?t=3893-o-macaco-lê-palavr ... enas-en-pt
viewtopic.php?t=3891-o-lobo-tem-uma-pequena-casa-en-pt

There were a few more, I can search the older browser history. Is it necessary?

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User avatar
luo-ning

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by luo-ning »

Thanks [mention]EranBarLev[/mention]! I think the mystery is solved, assuming those were included in the topics manually deleted.

Actually one thing did just occur to me — the database constraint that removes the metadata will only kick in if topics are hard deleted, so might be best to do that if they're currently only soft deleted [mention]Explorer[/mention].

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User avatar
Explorer
Portugal

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by Explorer »

EranBarLev wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:17 am
Explorer wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:59 am

@luo-ningI don't know if our dear Sentence Bot can do something about that (redirecting to an existing thread instead of creating a new one all the time).

It can and it does, I've checked that. It creates a duplicate thread because there are 2 SDs on Duolingo, one for PT→EN and another for EN→PT. I've also noticed that some exercises have no DISCUSS button, and then the topic is created without any link to Duolingo, so there might even be 3 topics for a single sentence.

That makes sense. Anyway all sentences, the original ones and the duplicates, were marked as EN→PT. If they had been marked as PT→EN, I would have considered them as different threads and moved them to the forum English for Portuguese speakers.

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luo-ning

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by luo-ning »

BTW manual moving of topics is still technically possible, but I'd discourage it as it will be overwritten by future changes to the language pair/forum mapping. As of now, any changes to that mapping will automatically move all SD topics (excluding those with 0 replies, which by default stay in viewforum.php?f=420-sentence-discussions to avoid cluttering up other forums).

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User avatar
EranBarLev
Israel

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by EranBarLev »

Explorer wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:07 pm

Anyway all sentences, the original ones and the duplicates, were marked as EN→PT. If they had been marked as PT→EN, I would have considered them as different threads and moved them to the forum English for Portuguese speakers.

That's not what I meant. In the Portuguese tree for English speakers you first get to translate a sentence from Portuguese to English, and later you get to translate the same sentence from English to Portuguese. Each one of these exercises has a separate SD in Duolingo. The bot currently creates a separate topic for each one of them as well. They both belong in the Portuguese for English speakers forum.

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User avatar
Explorer
Portugal

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by Explorer »

EranBarLev wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:31 pm

and later you get to translate the same sentence from English to Portuguese. Each one of these exercises has a separate SD in Duolingo. The bot currently creates a separate topic for each one of them as well. They both belong in the Portuguese for English speakers forum.

Ok I see. Well, in that case the sentence, and therefore the title of the thread, should be written in English to avoid confusion. That's how it worked on Duolingo.

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User avatar
luo-ning

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by luo-ning »

I'm keeping the “main” sentence for each discussion as the one in the language being learned, regardless of the exercise type. Otherwise you'd have one field that sometimes contains the sentence in the “from” language and other times contains the sentence in the “learning” language. The latter is what Duolingo does in its API responses, but it seems like a weird way to structure the data to me.

The presentation, however, can be separate from the underlying date structure, so potentially in future it'll be more flexible. But I'm not worrying to much about the presentation for now, as there are higher-priority bugfixes and features. And anyway, most likely the best solution will be to automatically merge such topics into 1 Duome forum topic that's backed by 2 sets of metadata and links to 2 Duolingo forum topics.

🦀 Pensando en la inmortalidad del cangrejo 🏴‍☠️ Flags Are Not Languages

User avatar
Explorer
Portugal

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by Explorer »

luo-ning wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:10 pm

most likely the best solution will be to automatically merge such topics into 1 Duome forum topic that's backed by 2 sets of metadata and links to 2 Duolingo forum topics.

Alright, that seems to be the most practical solution. Looking forward to its definitive implementation. Thank you very much for the hard work! ;)

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gmads
Mexico

Re: How to use the Sentence Discussions Forum

Post by gmads »

I would vote for removing all the empty, unanswered entries. Just noise.


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