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Hello

User avatar
lrai
United States of America

Hello

Post by lrai »

Hello, is there anyone out there also learning Yiddish? I am pretty new to this language on DL but I grew up hearing it when I was very young. I am working now on trying to read it but it's not easy. I can read YIVO but the "Hebrew" characters are a little harder for me. I am focusing for now on trying to learn them so I have stopped lessons for a while so I can just concentrate on the characters.

If there is anyone else interested in talking about their learning (journey) for Yiddish, I'd be happy to hear from you. :D

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

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Kelikaku
Israel

Re: Hello

Post by Kelikaku »

Both Hebrew and Yiddish, originally didn't have any instructions on that topic. Now both of them have a completely separate set of drills on how to read and write the language:

https://www.duolingo.com/alphabets/yi/yiddish/tips

You can do these drills and earn XP points for completing them.

Hope this helped.

Thanks so very much.
Keep up the good work.

bs'd

User avatar
lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

Kelikaku:

Nice to see you here, Yep I know about the "alphabet" section and I have been working on that for over 6 weeks now. I do one lesson per day b/c I don't have much time to devote to it. It's been good and I feel like it's helping but sometimes it's very hard to remember which character is what. So many look the same. Is there a trick?

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

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OtAzoy
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by OtAzoy »

Hi, Irai. I'm almost finished with the Yiddish tree myself, and I'm afraid there is no "trick" for learning the letters; it's just brute memorization. And, yes, some of the letters are very similar. And then there is the added business of needing to remember that some letters have a "regular" form and a "final" form.

ד ר ז פֿ פּ ב כ װ ו י ײ ײַ These are the letters that would present the most problems, I think.

In my case, I am not concentrating on speaking Yiddish (although I also heard it as a child), but I want to be able to write original pieces in Yiddish. I have a few stories posted here on Duome.

It's nice to see another Yiddish learner here! :)

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

OtAzoy:

WOW great to see you here. Good for you on nearly completing the tree...I have only done the first "goal post" to purple and now I am slowly learning the letters and then back to learning "goal post 2" I thought maybe if I did the letters it would be helpful. I would love to be able to speak it better, it's like going back in time for me. I wish I hadn't been such a stubborn child and had learned this when I was a child. I could understand it pretty well but never could really speak it. I think there are others like me...LOL

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Hello

Post by Corinnebelle »

Have you tried writing the letters? Sometimes that helps you get a feel for them.

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Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Hello

Post by Corinnebelle »

OtAzoy wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:08 pm

Hi, Irai. I'm almost finished with the Yiddish tree myself, and I'm afraid there is no "trick" for learning the letters; it's just brute memorization. And, yes, some of the letters are very similar. And then there is the added business of needing to remember that some letters have a "regular" form and a "final" form.

ד ר ז פֿ פּ ב כ װ ו י ײ ײַ These are the letters that would present the most problems, I think.

In my case, I am not concentrating on speaking Yiddish (although I also heard it as a child), but I want to be able to write original pieces in Yiddish. I have a few stories posted here on Duome.

It's nice to see another Yiddish learner here! :)

Do you use cursive Hebrew with Yiddish too? How do you write it?

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

this is the thread but it doesn't show up on the forum board. I am not sure why...it shows zero posts but you can clearly see we have had posts...hmmm?

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

User avatar
duome

Re: Hello

Post by duome »

These are different threads:
viewforum.php?f=36-yiddish - I speak English, learning Yiddish
viewforum.php?f=179-איך-רעד-יידיש - I speak Yiddish, learning other languages

User avatar
lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

OHHHHH I get it so my thread was posted in the wrong place, thanks for moving it. I didn't quite understand but now it makes total sense.

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

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OtAzoy
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by OtAzoy »

"Do you use cursive Hebrew with Yiddish too? How do you write it?"

Yes. You use cursive Hebrew with Yiddish as well. But that means you have to learn the cursive alphabet first. :)

It's totally different from the printed alphabet as it is in any language. The Yiddish Book Center in Amerherst, Massachusetts has a beautiful video that teaches cursive Yiddish:

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/langu ... abet-video

You need to be aware that as the speaker in the video pronounces each letter, she uses the "Litvish" pronunciation and NOT the "Hungarian/Chasidic" pronunciation of the Duolingo course.

For study purposes, however, you could probably just write the font that Duolingo uses (which is not the block print that you find in Yiddish books nor is it the cursive). These could be easily learned: א אָ אַ ב ג ד ה ו װ ױ ז ח ט י יִ ײ ײַ כ ך ל מ ם נ ן ס ע פּ פֿ ף צ ץ ק ר ש ת

Enjoy,

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

I went to the link and it's wonderful, however I am having enough trouble learning to read the letters in block form, it would be like trying to learn Arabic or Hindi to learn them in cursive form LOL I will keep struggling and hopefully get better. BTW I grew up listening to the litvish so it was music to my ears to hear it again. The Chasidic at times just sounds off. Sort of like when a person here in China who speaks Beijing Mandarin hears someone speaking Changchun Mandarin...it just sounds off.

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Hello

Post by Corinnebelle »

OtAzoy wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:22 am

"Do you use cursive Hebrew with Yiddish too? How do you write it?"

Yes. You use cursive Hebrew with Yiddish as well. But that means you have to learn the cursive alphabet first. :)

It's totally different from the printed alphabet as it is in any language. The Yiddish Book Center in Amerherst, Massachusetts has a beautiful video that teaches cursive Yiddish:

https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/langu ... abet-video

You need to be aware that as the speaker in the video pronounces each letter, she uses the "Litvish" pronunciation and NOT the "Hungarian/Chasidic" pronunciation of the Duolingo course.

For study purposes, however, you could probably just write the font that Duolingo uses (which is not the block print that you find in Yiddish books nor is it the cursive). These could be easily learned: א אָ אַ ב ג ד ה ו װ ױ ז ח ט י יִ ײ ײַ כ ך ל מ ם נ ן ס ע פּ פֿ ף צ ץ ק ר ש ת

Enjoy,

Thanks OtAzoy, I know cursive, I have just learnt that pey sofit ף goes down and tsadai sofit ץ goes up [the Hebrew names for those letters]. I have been picking three words each day and I write them down in cursive before making up sentences with them. You can see my poor attempts in שלוש מילים משיעורי

It was an interesting video and I like the way they wrote gimmel ג, zayin ז and nun נ better than the way I write it. Mem sofit ם doesn't have a tail here and tsaidai צ doesn't look like a capital E mirrored.

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

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Kelikaku
Israel

Re: Hello

Post by Kelikaku »

Corinnebelle wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:12 am

... writing the letters? ...

Writing is not so simple.

The drills demonstrate how they're written, and similar to English, but even more so, there are rules on how the strokes are set down. So it's in the drills already, showing what stroke is made first, whether it's supposed to be made in a clockwise fashion, or down to up, or up to down, and the like.

It's pretty strict, but most Hebrew speakers learn these strokes early in childhood, by the time they're adults, they don't even realize they're doing it, and have forgotten there is even a certain "stroke order" that exists.

In English, stroke order/stroke direction isn't that strict, and sometimes, it's a matter of preference. I'm not entirely certain but, I also believe that Asian languages have pictographic characters that also have a strict stroke order/direction.

Thanks so very much.
Keep up the good work.

bs'd

User avatar
Explorer
Portugal

Re: Hello

Post by Explorer »

Kelikaku wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:17 pm

I'm not entirely certain but, I also believe that Asian languages have pictographic characters that also have a strict stroke order/direction.

You're right. It's very important to learn the right stroke order as this helps memorize characters and write them faster. Unfortunately more and more Japanese people are forgetting how to write kanji by hand due to the widespread use (and misuse) of smartphones and computers. I don't know if this is happening to other languages too.

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Kelikaku
Israel

Re: Hello

Post by Kelikaku »

lrai wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:56 am

... the "Hebrew" characters are a little harder ...

Here is a website many of us might find helpful:

https://www.cartoonhebrew.com/aleph

Thanks so very much.
Keep up the good work.

bs'd

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Hello

Post by Corinnebelle »

Kelikaku wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:17 pm
Corinnebelle wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:12 am

... writing the letters? ...

Writing is not so simple.

The drills demonstrate how they're written, and similar to English, but even more so, there are rules on how the strokes are set down. So it's in the drills already, showing what stroke is made first, whether it's supposed to be made in a clockwise fashion, or down to up, or up to down, and the like.

It's pretty strict, but most Hebrew speakers learn these strokes early in childhood, by the time they're adults, they don't even realize they're doing it, and have forgotten there is even a certain "stroke order" that exists.

In English, stroke order/stroke direction isn't that strict, and sometimes, it's a matter of preference. I'm not entirely certain but, I also believe that Asian languages have pictographic characters that also have a strict stroke order/direction.

I have endeavored to learn the strokes, and now I understand why my Hebrew teacher insisted I learn them so carefully. I went and watched this and thanks for pointing it out, there is one I'm going the wrong way! :)

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

Stroke sequence is very important in writing Chinese as well. I have often said that Chinese are one of the "lost" tribes of my people...LOL

lrai
what's your legacy
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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

Kelikaku:

The Hebrew link was good but I wish there was one in Yiddish. I tend to be easily distracted so I need to just focus on one language at a time. LOL I am rather OCD.

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

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OtAzoy
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by OtAzoy »

lrai wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:27 am

Kelikaku:

The Hebrew link was good but I wish there was one in Yiddish. I tend to be easily distracted so I need to just focus on one language at a time. LOL I am rather OCD.

Not to worry. The letters of Yiddish are the same as the letters of Hebrew (they use the same alphabet). There are only six letters that Hebrew uses that are NOT in the Yiddish alphabet. You can see which they are in the following table: https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/langu ... beys-chart

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

Thanks I didn't realize that. Okay now that makes this a better option for trying to wrap my head around it.

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

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Corinnebelle

Re: Hello

Post by Corinnebelle »

[mention]Kelikaku[/mention] Is there a special significance in the stroke order for the block script in Hebrew also?

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

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OtAzoy
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by OtAzoy »

Not sure what you mean by "special significance", but there is a preferred way of writing the block print letters of Hebrew. Here is a child's version of the sequence of strokes for the letters:

http://www.akhlah.com/wordpress/wp-cont ... etters.pdf

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by lrai »

OtAzoy:

Thanks for that link, it looks so easy and reminded me that when we learn to write English letters we also are told to do it in a certain way but later on you write as you like and it really doesn't matter as long as people can read it. Here in China it matters a lot but I am not sure why. I am guessing it has to do with the fact that when you do Chinese writing with a brush and ink the stroke order keeps you from messing up what you just wrote. Sort of like if you are a lefty and writing English you learn to compensate so you don't drag your hand over what you just wrote. I am just guessing.

lrai
what's your legacy
Image 🇨🇳 🇷🇺 Learning Yiddish, Chinese, Russian

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OtAzoy
United States of America

Re: Hello

Post by OtAzoy »

That sounds exactly like that would be the reason for stroke order with Chinese brush-and-ink writing. :)

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Corinnebelle

Re: Hello

Post by Corinnebelle »

[mention]OtAzoy[/mention] I think I could improve them both! :)

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

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