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Do you translate peoples names ?

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dakanga

Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

The name of someone, is that persons name.

When someone is called Maria, and they go and live in, lets say England, the name on their birth certificate, or visa or other documentation is not changed/translated to Mary.
However if a person with the name of Maria, chooses to be called Mary, then that is different. In common usage, it is then respectful to choose to call / refer to that person as Mary. (Unless for example, it is for "official/legal documentation" reasons).

Just is if a person, who has a legal name of Maria chooses to be called Ann, then it is polite to respect the choice of the person, and call them, and refer to them as Ann.
To insist that someone must be called a different name, to the one that they are called, and that they choose to be called, it is also a form of abuse. For most language pairs, names are not translated into other languages. It is seen in many cultures as a type of name calling and put down.

When people do that to us, there is substantial number of us that can feel :

  • you are being belittling to the person
  • you are seeking to dishonor the person and strip them of their identity.
  • you are seeking to disrespect and alienate the person.

The Scottish Gaelic culture though has a twist on this. Check out this sub discussion.
Though their culture seeks to do this in a respectful way to the person, in how they do this.

Also check out this sub discussion. Of how in the target language they are learning, the community they are learning with are suggesting taking on version of their name in the target language, in order to celebrate their progress and in a way to be even more inclusive.

I welcome people to express your opinions to this, and also feel free to talk about historical situations.

One variation to this is when translating from a script different to the target script/alphabet, then there can be variations in spelling. Especially when it is into English, that has such a huge variation in spelling to sound relationships.


sub note: yes, this is a repost, from one a handful of days ago. And in a "desk review", there was no due cause or reason to why the original became removed. And I have a green light of approval from Duo to repost. We do not know all the details of why that original post disappeared. And I hope all of us will choose to move on, and contribute to this discussion.

Thank you all of you for choosing to be spectacular and inclusive and choosing to discuss issues that are important to a collection of us in a respectful way.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

How are names handled in Scottish-Gaelic ?

Translating names is generally the common practice in Gaelic speaking communities.

Gaelic context is different in that all speakers are proficient in English and spend much of their lives existing in an English dominated world.
For us to suggest that Gaelic speakers use their Gaelic name in English as a matter of course would be a misrepresentation.
The course reflects, and not dictates current practice and we also discuss this in the notes.
To date, of the many many Gaelic speakers I have discussed the course with none have found issue with the naming convention. Gaelic also has a distinct vocative case.

Trying to teach this without translating, would be a minefield. Certainly not rude to Gaelic speakers.

by CIMacAonghais

i.e. see : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... iven_names

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Also, CIMacAonghais further explained :

"... we translate peoples names as we find it is : "
causing endless confusion given that a Gaelic name is likely given to take on several different grammatical forms - nominative, vocative and genitive.
Hence the reason translations occur in our course.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Also, in the Scottish-Gaelic course, they explain this concept when they introduce names in this course. Under the skill "Names"

This is part of what they say in the Tips and Notes from that skill :

Cultural Context

It would generally be considered rude to translate a French name such as Pierre into Peter in English. The same is not true for Gaelic. Most native Gaelic speakers would be known by their Gaelic name in Gaelic, and its 'translation' in English. Someone known as 'Oighrig' in Gaelic would almost certainly known by its translation 'Effie' in English . We want to show learners what actually happens in Gaelic communities and so we have followed this convention.

Some Gaelic names such as Iain and Mòrag are so common in Scottish English that they are not translated in the course.

It is becoming increasingly common for parents to give children a Gaelic name as their given / recorded name, which is lovely.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by AnomalousCowherd (paul?)

A little while after I started learning Welsh, I began to have very halting conversations with my Welsh friends. After a while, in an email, they said in an email, "We're going to have to start calling you Pawl (the Welsh spelling of Paul) if you keep at it!"

The pronunciation is almost the same, so the difference is only really apparent when written. Now my Welsh is improving, they occasionally write to me in Welsh and use this spelling. Since it is in the context of them being supportive of my learning, I'm not in the slightest bit offended - and I'm sure that if I asked them not to do it, they would stop immediately. But on the other hand, I think I'd be a bit miffed if a random person started using that spelling without asking me first. I'd certainly never impose the English translation of another person's name unless they did it first. It just seems rude.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

I am so GLAD to hear this !

CONGRATULATIONS on this great progress! ![Duo9](https://imgur.com/5vv5BUm.png)

And I agree, this is a great to hear how they are doing it in a way that is inclusive, and seeking to be respectful. In fact more than respectful. To suggest this to you as a way you may like to choose to celebrate your progress ! For them and for you.

Thanks also for sharing this news, and also showing a way that this could be done in a way that you can find as inclusive and respectful.

For it is at its heart about respectfulness of another, and also our connections.

It reminds me of a spiritual movement I have just heard about of Ubunto, which at its core is :
I am because we are.

To expand, we are all connected, we cannot be ourselves without community, health and faith are always lived out among others, an individual's well-being is caught up in the well-being of others.

Quite an interesting philosophy.
Along the lines of :

We the people have the power to create a better future.

Or from our Duolingo guidelines:
Our guidelines are meant to build a mutual understanding of what being a part of this community is all about.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Gh0stwheel

Do you translate peoples names ?

I'd never translate any real life person's name.
Most people are emotionally attached to their name, and view it as part of their identity. However, if a person wants to blend in culturally and asks me to provide possible translations, I'd be (and have in real life) happy to give them a few options with their connotations. In any case, even if someone asks you, try to see if they truly want to, or feel expected to, before jumping in with suggestions.

As to character names in books, I prefer to keep the original names, unless the name's meaning is a clue or has a bearing on things that happen in the book.

Thanks for posting this discussion!

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Oso-the-Bear

Julio and Enrique Iglesias are not called Julius or Henry Churches on MTV. Michael Jackson is not called Miguel in Mexico. George Bush is not called Jorge Arbusto in Mexico. Vicente Fox is not called Vincent in the United States.

In Mikhail Gorbachev's name the characters are changed from Cyrillic script to the Latin alphabet because nobody could read Михаил Горбачев. But we still call him Mikhail and not Michael. It is difficult for English speakers to pronounce the kh so it often sounds more like "Mick-ale" but we are still not calling him Michael.

Likewise if you get a newspaper article written about you or are mentioned in a blog post or somebody translates a blog post written about you or if you are sued in a court document or if they write your name down when they see your passport at the airport or if they call your name for roll call in class. They're going to write it the way it is written and do their best to pronounce it.

Obviously there are lots of personal situations where somebody chooses to go by a different name or is given a local nickname. That's totally different and it's not the same thing as translating a name as like the default way to translate a sentence.

At least that's how it is in the United States and I think most of the world. I'm learning that apparently there are exceptions such as in Scottish Gaelic culture as explained in this thread.

For these reasons I think Duolingo is correct that they insist on you spelling names the way it is written in the original sentence and not exchanging Ana with Anna or Sofia with Sophia.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Zzzzz...

I believe that the only living person in the world whose name is still always translated in English speaking cultures is the pope. Franciscus, the current pope, is known as Francis in the English speaking world. There's been a shift in all western countries during the past 40 years or so. Translating names has become less popular. Taking a new legal name when moving to another country has also become less popular.

In many languages, including English, it has been customary to translate the names of monarchs and other important historical figures (like scientists and philosophers, for example) as well as names important in religious and mythological context. Despite the tradition of anglicising the Latin name of the pope, English often opts for the Latin translation of non-English names. For instance, the Greek hero Herakles is known as Hercules and the Polish scientist Mikołaj Kopernik as Nicolaus Copernicus. Or the name is simply replaced by an English one (for ex. Catherine the Great of Russia). I'm mentioning this to inform those who do not like their name being constantly translated or mispronounced that they're in prestigious company (don’t let other people get to you) – and in the hope of someone explaining me why Ἀριστοτέλης, Aristotélēs, is called Aristotle in English. I have no idea what's going on with that one. :)

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by BrennaDP

I have no source for this, but I'd be willing to put down money that the Latinization of names in English comes from the time when Latin was the default language for publishing serious works of literature. So, for example, you mentioned Copernicus: his book "On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres" was published in Latin, and so he Latinized his name (to make everything consistent, I guess?).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

Now, I haven't looked at many historical works in Latin, but, in the one history class where we did do that, it was pretty common for the authors to Latinize their names. I don't know if that was to look more authoritative, like an ancient philosopher, or just to make the grammar come out right on the title page, but it seems to have been A Thing.

Interestingly enough, it looks like the first edition of Isaac Newton's Principia had his name in English, and he corrected it to Latin for subsequent editions (look at the different pictures of editions here, including his own copy with handwritten corrections).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosoph ... athematica

Again, these sources are from Wikipedia, so, you know, take them with a grain of salt. My background in academia is mathematics and physics, not history, so I very well could be wrong about all of this. But I'm guessing at least part of this in English speaking countries is the expectation that you translate your name into Latin anyway for official documents/literature, and so the reader on the other end will translate your name along with the rest of the book.

Idk about Aristotle. If I had to guess, though, I'd say it came from reading philosophical works in Latin where his name had been changed to Aristotlus or something of the sort. Or, possibly, from translating Arisototelius to Aristotel, and then doing that wonderful 16th century English thing where you just pick a spelling for a name that looks right, and spelling "Aristotel" as "Aristotle."

Again, this is just what I would assume. This may or may not have any relation to what actually happened.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by tachyonashley123

I can't enlighten you on Aristotle, but i will note that there has recently been some pushback against the Western practice of Latinizing the names of historic Islamic philosophers, such as Ibn Sina (Avicenna) and Ibn Rushd (Averroes).

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

I wonder how they could Latinize those names in that way ?

  • Ibn Sina ابن سينا to be Avicenna
    This is what WIKI tells me : Avicenna is a Latin corruption of the Arabic patronym ibn Sīnā (ابن سينا‎), meaning "Son of Sina". However, Avicenna was not the son but the great-great-grandson of a man named Sina. ref

  • and Ibn Rushd ابن رشد to be Averroes
    And again, this is what WIKI says : "Averroes" is the Medieval Latin form of "Ibn Rushd"; it was derived from the Spanish pronunciation of the original Arabic name, wherein "Ibn" becomes "Aben" or "Aven" ref

Thank you also for this information tachy90. Especially that there is currently a trend to push back on this type of Latinization.

edited, though as BrennaDP has mentioned, this is on Wiki, and is only one source. Though these ones are also annotated.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Saydobid_Xusanov

Ibn Sina ابن سينا to be Avicenna

Abu Ali ibn Sino is one of the most famous science doctors in the world who lived in Uzbekistan. His name is changed to Avicenna in Europe or other countries to make it easier to say and this is the way how they show respect to him (as far as I rely on several books).

And these words are not accurate:

This is what WIKI tells me : Avicenna is a Latin corruption of the Arabic patronym ibn Sīnā (ابن سينا‎), meaning "Son of Sina". However, Avicenna was not the son but the great-great-grandson of a man named Sina.

His real name was Husayn. "Abu Ali ibn Sino" means "Ali's father, Sino's son" which is used to indicate and show the ancestors of the scientist (not exactly him). Both Ali and Sino are his ancestors. This chain can be continued even longer like "Abu_ ibn _ ibn_".

Here's an example to make it more clear:

My (abu) dad is "he", "he" is the (ibn) son of "this", "this" is "that"'s (ibn) son, "that" is "somebody"'s (ibn) son, "somebody" is "someone"'s (ibn) son.

My dad is Dilmurod, he is the son of Fazliddin, Fazliddin is the son of Zayniddin. - You don't see my name here even if these are my ancestors.

Which means my name is like that, there's no need to repeat the words (like I did above to explain):

Abu Dilmurod ibn Fazliddin ibn Zayniddin. - You don't see Saydobid here, but this is about me - from my dad to my great-granddad.

![](https://f1.kundalik.com/get.aspx/40/22c ... 14906f.jpg)

All of the Uzbek people know him as we learn our scientists from the 1st grade and we all appreciate him. We accept it when other ones call him "Avicenna" and we consider it to be the support that other countries are showing to him.

I included the screenshot from the 1st grade "Reading book" above which is taught in all the schools in the second half of the 1st grade study year. We all learn our history from the 1st to the last grade at school in Uzbekistan.

Check out this book which is free to share which is taught to all Uzbek pupils of the 1st grade: https://eduportal.uz/Umumiyfiles/darsli ... _1_uzb.pdf

Info about him is on page 28.

I hope that you understand how it works with "abu" and "ibn" :)

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Aristotle was Greek. So his name is written, in Greek, his language, as : Ἀριστοτέλης.

So there are some different ways you could translate this into the Latin alphabet.

Historically, in Latin text, the current accepted norm is Aristotle.

However you could look at different ways for transliteration.

Another subject with lots of different views and practices.

To transliterate letter for letter :

Ἀριστοτέλης
ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣ (all in capitals)
ARISTOTELIS

transliterated ... being a "letter for letter" transliteration, as per standards below from Wiki. Though that is not the how all transliteration works. It also depends where you set "parameters/rules"

i.e. check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

RELATED REFERENCES:
https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... eles-why-a

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Another variation on this, is in cultures that have "name day" celebrations.

Such as in some European countries and the Americas, and some cultures/religions of Christianity, Roman Catholic and Easter Orthodox countries.

You might like to check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_day# ... a birthday.

So for some people, when they take on these cultures, and/or move to these regions, they may choose to take on one of the recognized names, used in associated name day celebrations.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Zzzzz...

Name days are celebrated in Finland as well. Often, if you have more than one name (Finns usually have two or three), you get to celebrate name day several times a year! The names in the calendar are constantly updated depending on their popularity. It gets better. The Protestant and the Orthodox calendars are not identical, some names overlapping but usually appearing on a different day. That means that if you're really lucky and you have both Protestant and Orthodox family members, you can have as many as six name days during one year! ^^

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Saydobid_Xusanov

Thank you for reposting this Dr. daKanga!
As I said in the previous one, I don't translate people's name in this way, however, in Uzbek, I infer that all original Uzbek names have its deep meaning.

Examples:
Pokiza (girl's name) - it literally means "clean" which is a really good and polite word to describe someone.

Ozoda (girl's name) - it means "tidy" which is similar to "pokiza", but we use both of them in various places.

Erkin (boy's name) - which means "free" to describe personality, the one who doesn't have anything to prevent from like "I am free!"

Yorqin (boy's name) - which means "bright" or "light". This is my grandad's name :)

Gulsara (girl's name) - which means "the best of the flowers" - my mom's name

Funny fact is that we use the words that I explained in our speech like when you say "Men erkinman" it may not mean your name is "Erkin", it means that you are free. We find the difference by the context and the spelling, it becomes a little bit harder while speaking though. ;)

All of my relatives', family members' names and mine have their meaning that we understand both in a literal and true way ;)

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by ciaobello92

This is something I deal with daily, as I teach kids in China to speak English... Usually their parents (or a teacher in their local school) will choose an "English name' for them. This is probably out of fear that English speakers won't be able to pronounce their names. I've always had mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I've heard many people complain of self esteem issues relating to teachers often mispronouncing their names horribly... and having an alias could help avoid this issue altogether. But there's also the danger of students not feeling seen. It must be strange to be called by a name that's not your own every day. After a while, you might claim it, but I can imagine feeling alienated from the people you speak to, unable to be yourself. When students come to me before they've taken an English name, I make a point of learning how to pronounce their birth name correctly and use it often. I want them to know that I see them, and that they can be themselves in my classroom. I do, however, enjoy learning what the names themselves mean broken down, as Chinese and Korean names are often very specific combinations of characters chosen to ensure a good life for a person. Whereas many English names don't have a deeper meaning, or we've lost what it was.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by JqrlValkqrie

I wouldn't say that last statement is entirely true.

Many people name their kids after virtues: "Hope", "Trinity", "Serenity", "Nevaeh", "Aria", or even "Chasity/Chastity". Many are named after plants or animals, i.e: "Iris", "Conan", "Holly".

Many foreign names are adapted to English due to their meaning, such as Noel (Christmas, from French) and basically all Biblical names like John, Joseph, Samuel, Gabriel.

Most names with "Fred" or "Frid" in it have something to do with "Ruler (as in a King)", i.e: Frederick.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Lemon_287

Thank you i always try to keep the name of the person like it is unless they ask me to change how the culture will say it I know this feeling when it get annoying when people change your name is makes you feel like they do not care i have a hard name to say so people say it wrong so i just give my self a nick name that my fam and the culture can say and I know a lot of people like my friend is Korean and people say it wrong and she get really upset but i give her a nick name too lol but in some culture is really rude to say it wrong it makes them feel like your not respecting them nope people will not change a singers or bands name unless it a nick name or translation that allowed.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by ARCANA-MVSA

I personally don't have as much of an issue with names, perhaps because I was given two names at birth - a legal first name and a nickname. I go by the nickname all the time but I view it as more of my proper name over the legal name (though not enough to warrant changing the legal name).

I also took on two other names when I studied Latin and German, one for each language. These too I consider to be my names, because I got used to them and they fit me pretty well. (One of these I use here.)

There was also a time when I was hanging out with some family and friends when I met someone new. She couldn't readily remember either my first name or my nickname, so she called me something close that she could remember. I didn't mind at all.

Let's just say I have a lot of nicknames. :P

But it's important to note that I don't expect this perspective to fit for everyone. I will ask people how they prefer to be called, and I will make the effort to remember it. Similarly, where I work, we have a lot of foreign people help us with deliveries, and their names are often very unique to what I'm used to as an English speaker (I honestly couldn't translate most of them even if I wanted to, lol). I ask them how to pronounce their names and will try to learn it as best I can. For me, that's just basic respect.

I've also had a number of friends who grew up disliking their names, and who had eventually taken on new ones which they felt suited them better. That choice is theirs to make, not mine, and I'm perfectly happy to respect their decision by using their chosen names.

As for translating names, I don't perceive a translated variant as the same name, but rather a different name altogether. And considering translating someone's name can and has been used to force people to assimilate into a culture (such as the Storycorps video Facundo the Great), I find it best to ask first.

While I don't have an issue with people giving me other names, I do have an issue with name calling or being disrespectful to others' wishes, including (but not at all limited to) my own.

I do make an exception for languages like Czech, Gaelic, or Japanese, which often have to translate names due to their grammar (and phonetics in Japanese's case), but other than that, it's better to ask.

So ... Would I translate someone's name? No, unless they specifically asked me to do so. And so far, no one has.

Volgav vitsenanieff nivya kevach varatsach.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by zyxwvutsrqpo

Generalizing it to call it abuse might be far-fetched (as it isn't always done with that intent), but yeah, calling people what they want to be called is the way to go.

That's unless they want to be called something pompous or otherwise overly eccentric like "His majesty, king of the landfill".

The only people I've ever met that actually disregarded doing that have been teachers. Generally not purely for functional purposes. But yeah, the profession of teaching is one that disproportionally attracts people who love to have power over others (though they're obviously still a minority of all teachers). In my limited experience, it seems as though in the Netherlands they pay extra attention to call names (some professors even asking for them) compared to where I live (Belgium) and that people more easily feel insulted to not be called what they want to be called. In a course, I remember somebody being assigned to my group where I only received said person's official name. When using that name to contact her, she responded quite rudely. I don't think it's a custom in the Netherlands to ask people for their call name when you only know their official name though.

Personally I have never had an issue with using call names. Though, when people for any reason change it (change of preference / sex change / ...) it will take me a while to adjust and I definitely automatically will be using the old name for a good while and might long term accidentally use the old one sometimes. Obviously without any negative intent.

I don't know how other people's brain work (the same or different), but I don't remember people through their name. It's a reference that's strongly associated with them through what I would call learning. Like how you call a chair a "chair". The name purely being a reference to it rather than having anything to do with your perception / attitude towards it. Thus similarly as with a person, changing the name of a chair to "sittything", would take some time to adjust to and with a fair probability of automatically still using "chair" sometimes. Unlike popular belief, if I don't remember your name, that generally is a good sign. While if I purely remember you through your name, it means you don't mean much to me. And it would be easier for me to switch to a new name for people I care less about, because their name is what I primarily associate with them. While for people who I do care about, other associations will take priority, sort of obscuring their name, it "coming later in the chain of associations" or however to refer to it. (that doesn't mean I "never" remember somebody's name instantly, though I'm less likely to be able to recall when pressed). I don't get the impression that it works like that for other people too, but I can't look inside their heads nor thinking processes.

What I actually mean to say is, yeah, using call names definitely is the right thing to do, though I'd say that things in reality are a bit more complex than to paint it as though people who don't, necessarily do it for any kind of negative reason. Who knows, in a small minority of cases it might even be for an unapparent positive reason.

P.S. I hate cities having different names in different languages. Which is a common thing here in Europe. Even some villages have translations here, though they might not always be well known (anymore).

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

I frequently see this "hotly" discussed in Sentence discussions.

So I thought people may like to discuss this issue here.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Gh0stwheel

Oh. This puts the topic in a different light.

I think that the intention of the translation in lesson/practice sentences is neither to say we need to translate names, nor that this is the custom. The way I see the name-translation issue in Duolingo lesson sentences is that we are taught the local version of the name (when there is one).

I don't mind it in this case.
I get to learn the spelling and pronunciation.
I get to feel that even though the language is different, and the prevalent names are too, there is still some small cultural connection. Even if at first it is a little weird to translate names.

I think a lot of the difficulty people have with seeing the pedagogical benefit (once the weirdness is acknowledged) is that they are reluctant to let go of the understandable anger they've felt when they were first marked wrong / lost the points.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

originally posted by deactivated user

I disagree. I think it is disrespectful to change anyone’s name without them first telling you to do so. This “translation” normalizes and fosters the idea of assimilation and foreign culture overriding personal identity. Many of my friends with names from non-western cultures are livid when people do this to them (although they do not always call people out on it directly). There are more respectful ways to explain that Giorgio is similar to George without anglicizing the name. And no, Matteo is not Matthew.

It seems culturally clueless at best to promote this mechanism. I will just leave it there.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

originally posted by Gh0stwheel

think I might have been misunderstood, or could have been clearer.

I'm saying that I would not  translate any real life person's name. I'm trying to think of the likely reason behind this decision, and given that it is not anyone real that might get hurt, that I do not mind  that in fictitious Duolingo sentences they choose to introduce that target language's version of the name.

Is it weird to translate the name even solely in this context? Yes.

Would it be better if they explain the reasoning of using the target language name in it, and the base language name in the base language? Sure. It might also help people avoid the confusion of thinking that we are expected to do so in real life.

If there was more room for Tips and Notes, I'd think it would be better to only use the target language names in all of the sentences, and have a "Notes - names" tip that shows the corresponding names.

Obviously non of the "translated" names in our lessons are the same name as the one in the other language. They are versions with a shared history, that now have their own independent existence that goes far beyond being a translation.

P.S.
Matteo (it), Matthew (en), Mattathias (Greek - Μαθαθίας) and its more common shortening: Matthaios (Μαθθαίος) and Matthias (Μαθθίας) , all derive from transliterating the biblical Hebrew name Matityahu (מתיתיהו) and its shortened version Matitya (מתיתיה). All with the same meaning of "Gift of God" / "God's gift".

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

originally posted by ettelly

I do not mind  that in fictitious Duolingo sentences they choose to introduce that target language's version of the name

What do you mean by ”version of the name”? Aren't names common for the target language default names in a tree to begin with?

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

Originally posted by Gh0stwheel

Much like vocabulary is introduced, common target language names are introduced. I guess they figured that having the common name to each language (when writing in it) is beneficial.

I was trying to figure out why they chose to use the anglicized version in English, and thought there must have been a reason, as this is not common practice in real life.

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

originally posted by ettelly

But the way you say it sounds as if English names are the default names and then target language names are a ”version of” them.
In French for instance I don't see them translating French names into anything

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dakanga

Re: Do you translate peoples names ?

Post by dakanga »

originally posted by Gh0stwheel

@YulianaDK

But the way you say it sounds as if English names are the default names and then target language names are a ”version of” them.

Well I read it differently. The people who learn a course already know their base language and names in it, and are being introduced to target language words and names. And as I was responding to the fact that people complain about them using "translated" names and as this is not truly a translation, (as the meaning is not translated) and not transcribing either, I chose to refer to the corresponding names as versions of each other.

In French for instance I don't see them translating French names into anything

Well, this entire sub-thread is about the courses in which they do; like they do in the Italian course that Dcarl1 (which is the person that I've responded to with "version") and I take.

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