Remove ma'am as a word in English. Topic is solved

[Corinnebelle]

@Mixcoatl I've heard of people doing that. Not everyone here is into a lot of technology so I hope not. They have some complicated combinations to get symbols on the Hebrew keyboard too.

[Deleted User 4833]

@gmads We have el nino and el nina weather formations. Nobody puts squiggles on them.

Some outlets writing about these weather phenomena do put squiggles on them.

[gmads]

@gmads We have el nino and el nina weather formations. Nobody puts squiggles on them.

Because you are looking at the English equivalent terms. In Spanish we definitely do

• fenómeno del niño y la niña: page 1… page 22

[gmads]

I can easily make ä on PCs using the 10-keypad shortcuts. And most of the other symbols I need.

Really? On any keyboard and any keyboard configuration?

I come from the DOS prehistoric times and so do I, even in more ways than just using keyboard shortcuts. The question is, how many people know how to do that? One can neither expect nor force people to learn and do this. It may not seem this way, but it requires quite some technological knowledge.

Not on any keyboard but the ones I use at home, work or libraries. And obviously only those that have a 10-keypad. I'm not tech-savvy or very coordinated but have memorized all the ones I need for the languages which interest me.

Yes, that's my point. It is very technological knowledge. Most people don't care. Very few are interested in learning, and when they do, they usually only learn enough to satisfy their own needs.

[gmads]

Not that I'm implying anything about your age […]

Oops! Speaking of the topic of the thread

[Deleted User 4833]

@gmads We have el nino and el nina weather formations. Nobody puts squiggles on them.

Because you are looking at the English equivalent terms. In Spanish we definitely do

• fenómeno del niño y la niña: page 1… page 22

English speaking written sources often spell it correctly also.
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ninonina.html

[Corinnebelle]

Not that I'm implying anything about your age […]

Oops! Speaking of the topic of the thread

Some young people aren't super into the technology either. It's probably an oddity to most, but not everyone is stuck to a screen scrolling, scrolling, scrolling with their fingers.

[Jimbo]

In US keyboards that is generally true. In other ones that may or may not be the case. In LA keyboards they are because in Spanish we have the "ü," as in "paragüitas" or "pingüinos."

Out of curiosity, which would you rather see from people who don't have an 'ñ' on their keyboards, 'n' or 'ny'?

The "n" is more than fine, I wouldn't mind it at all: niño/nino, cañón/canón, caña/cana, as context allows to understand the actual intention: me ofrecieron un jugo de cana, easy to understand that the person intended to say "caña." If I were to use a double letter combination, for some particular cases, like "año," I would use an "i" after the "n," like so: anio. I could suggest "gn" but unless familiar with the Italian language, many would not understand that combination: agno. I would stick with the "i," it gets a closer phonetic sound.

It's funny. I remember when I was first trying to learn Spanish, the beginner's guide I had said to pronounce the 'ñ' as if it was the 'ni' in 'onion', but with my accent I pronounce 'onion' as 'un-ee-un' which really didn't give the correct sound - it was only when I found other sources saying to pronounce it as if it was the middle part of 'canyon' or 'cognac' that I figured it out, except I found 'ny' words more common than 'gn' ones so as a result, 'ny' was the one I immediately thought of when making my post.

[gmads]

@gmads We have el nino and el nina weather formations. Nobody puts squiggles on them.

Because you are looking at the English equivalent terms. In Spanish we definitely do

• fenómeno del niño y la niña: page 1… page 22

English speaking written sources often spell it correctly also.
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ninonina.html

Also Italian ones.

• Caldo, arriva “El Niño”, si attendono temperature record

[Manex]

Hello,

Today I've received an email and it starts saying:

"Hello Sir / Ma'am
Have a nice day "

[nudelfressa]

I thought that the words "ma'am" and "sir" convey the feeling of warm hospitality.

In the US of A maybe.

In 25 years of living in UK, I was called "Sir" by a shop attendant today for the first time and I was quite upset. When random strangers call you "Sir" in UK, it's because they want to insult you or have a fight.

Would you mind telling me the situation?

At least here in the West Midlands, it's very rare that people address you as "Sir" unless they want to be passive aggressive. I made a harmless comment on the lack of more tills and the lady said "No, Sir, we are not short of tills" and she gave me that Margaret Thatcher's look that meant I would love to slap you.

[nudelfressa]

I, for one, had no knowledge at all that ä should be written as "ae" for those who don't have the ability to type ä on their computers.

But not for Fräulein. It is not acceptable to use three vowels, such as Fraeulein. I think, if one doesn't have a German keyboard, they'll have to use a alternate keyboard combination or use international US keyboard layout.

[nudelfressa]

Hello,

Today I've received an email and it starts saying:

"Hello Sir / Ma'am
Have a nice day "

That, in UK, would be either very wrong or just "taking the ####".

[rudi]

I can easily make ä on PCs using the 10-keypad shortcuts. And most of the other symbols I need.

Do you mean that combination of ALT and the numbers of the keypad? I have to admit, that's hard when you writing in another language which demands a lot of different ones. Often, I type them once in this way and then copy them. Or I copy them once from the Internet when I just don't know the number.

Edit: Ok, I was too slow. Yes, you meant it A fast discussion at the moment!
Edit2: 2 hours before... Sometimes my moments are veryyy long...

[rudi]

Because you are looking at the English equivalent terms. In Spanish we definitely do

• fenómeno del niño y la niña: page 1… page 22

English speaking written sources often spell it correctly also.
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ninonina.html

Also Italian ones.

• Caldo, arriva “El Niño”, si attendono temperature record

In Germany, we always do. (Is this the German (over-)correctness?) Maybe that's the reason I find it rude otherwise.

[Deleted User 3754]

.

[gmads]

For anyone wondering…

• What are tills in UK?

  till | BUSINESS ENGLISH
  noun [ C ] COMMERCE mainly UK
  (US register)
  a machine in a store or other business that records each sale and into which money paid by customers is put:
  – Early indications from major UK stores show that cash tills have only just improved their takings on last year.

[gmads]

Hello,

Today I've received an email and it starts saying:

"Hello Sir / Ma'am
Have a nice day "

[gmads]

English speaking written sources often spell it correctly also.

Also Italian ones.

In Germany, we always do. (Is this the German (over-)correctness?) Maybe that's the reason I find it rude otherwise.

I'd say that that is because German keyboards include them, but as the answers posted have shown, keyboards in other languages/configurations don't, and unless one has some basic knowledge about the language, no one would ever know that there is a regular (non-accented) letter combination. That's why it is better to just go easy on this kind of things, like for Spanish speaking persons having to read nino or nina instead of niño or niña

[gmads]

• Fräulein

  From the 1970s, Fräulein was used less often, and it was banned from official use in West Germany in 1972 by the Minister of the Interior. Nevertheless, the word, as a title of address and in other uses, continues to be used, albeit in much reduced frequency.
  
  Nowadays, style guides and dictionaries recommend that all women be addressed as Frau regardless of marital status, particularly in formal situations. A newsletter published on the website of the German dictionary Duden in 2002, for instance, noted that women should only be addressed as Fräulein when they specifically request this form of address.

• Google search: "fraeulein" → 10 pages

[rudi]

Also Italian ones.

In Germany, we always do. (Is this the German (over-)correctness?) Maybe that's the reason I find it rude otherwise.

I'd say that that is because German keyboards include them, but as the answers posted have shown, keyboards in other languages/configurations don't, and unless one has some basic knowledge about the language, no one would ever know that there is a regular (non-accented) letter combination. That's why it is better to just go easy on this kind of things, like for Spanish speaking persons having to read nino or nina instead of niño or niña

Okay, okay, I'm cooling down for 2 days now. Slowly, in the meantime I've got normal temperature again Maybe I should write a How-to-Guide for changing the ä. We're becoming quite offtopic here...

Other thing: Do you mean German keyboards includes ñ ? It doesn't, it only includes ~ as a standalone sign. Or I didn't find the exact combination yet. By the way, is it true that in US-American keyboards you can press ALT+S or ALTGr+S and you get ß?

[gmads]

edit:
since the "Rechtschreibreformen" and the attempts for gender-equal language, the line between correct & incorrect has blurred.
It's more like anarchy now...

And even "anarchy" doesn't seem to begin to describe how bad things are in so many areas

[gmads]

In Germany, we always do. (Is this the German (over-)correctness?) Maybe that's the reason I find it rude otherwise.

I'd say that that is because German keyboards include them […]

Other thing: Do you mean German keyboards includes ñ ? It doesn't, it only includes ~ as a standalone sign. Or I didn't find the exact combination yet.

Oh! Yes, I knew that the actual "ñ" character is not there but being the tilde available I though that pressing ~ plus n would give the ñ letter.

By the way, is it true that in US-American keyboards you can press ALT+S or ALTGr+S and you get ß?

No, not at all. The first combination usually selects whatever menu option that starts with "s" in the software. The second combination doesn't do anything by itself. It might do something on some applications, but that's a case by case situation.

[rudi]

No, I tried it. Didn't work. Maybe another combination. Is that ß-combination working for you? (QWERTY-keyboards)
Edit: But now I know how to make ņ

[gmads]

No, I tried it. Didn't work. Maybe another combination. Is that ß-combination working for you? (QWERTY-keyboards)
Edit: But now I know how to make ņ

Yes, it generally depends on the keyboard configuration.

Quite a strange letter!

[Deleted User 3754]

.

[gmads]

No, I tried it. Didn't work. Maybe another combination. Is that ß-combination working for you? (QWERTY-keyboards)
Edit: But now I know how to make ņ

Yes, it generally depends on the keyboard configuration.

Quite a strange letter!

Well, the Swiss don't use ß at all but only ss and it's still German!
So we don't need to fuss about it. Leave that to language professors who don't have anything else to keep themselves busy...

Oh, I meant the "ņ" I don't think it is a German letter.

Well, from the little I know, that change has been official since I don't know how long: ss instead of ß, isn't it?

[Corinnebelle]

I thought this quite interesting.

Well, the Swiss don't use ß at all but only ss and it's still German!
So we don't need to fuss about it. Leave that to language professors who don't have anything else to keep themselves busy...

[rudi]

Oh, I meant the "ņ" I don't think it is a German letter.

Which language could it be? It is made by AltGr+' and then n.

Well, from the little I know, that change has been official since I don't know how long: ss instead of ß, isn't it?

Since 1996. Depends, roughly said, whether it follows a short or a long vowel. Short vowel=ss, long vowel=ß. (dass, Soße) In my opinion they should have left the ß as is was, it was easier to memorize for the most people. But what do I know. Anyway, cool, that it's relatively easy to type on other keyboards. Aah, sorry, didn't read carefully.

[Corinnebelle]

I never knew about AltGrrrrr key until I was learning the keyboard layout for Hebrew, than I had to find it!