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comments and observations on Busuu

We are not Busuu, we cannot solve any problems directly, but we can provide community-based advice.


User avatar
dochawk
United States of America

comments and observations on Busuu

Post by dochawk »

With many of us looking at new places to go, I figured threads to share observations would be useful.

I spent time with Busuu today.

It's not all of the way there (at most two or three words; you don't use whole sentences).

It has more formal/explicit grammar explanations than Duolingo (OK, that's a low bar!

On the much brighter side, in each group (unit?) of lessons, there is a speech/writing exercise (you choose), which is sent to native speakers to "correct." In return, you get asked to correct those learning English.

I probably should have aborted and restarted the placement quiz once I realized some of what it was saying and asking. It started me on lesson 40 of A2.

It's designed so that each lesson unlocks the next, but you can go to the unit test, which unlocks the lessons of the unit as well as a lesson or two forward.

I got to the end of A1, at which point there's a test, but to move on from there without doing every single lesson you need to be a paid member. If you sign up for six months or a year ($84), you get a seven day cancellation period (which they style a "7 day free trial").

Oh, and there's no way to report errors as in duolingo. So when it has a question asking to have time periods put in order, there's nothing to do but remember for when the question comes again that "ayer" (yesterday) is "more recent" than "anoche" (last night).

Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

I tried Busuu for Arabic, but I quit. I started at the beginning level even though I'd learned some Arabic, and after a few lessons they started throwing dialogues at me for which I had to fill in missing words. But the dialogues contained words I hadn't learned yet. I was usually able to fill in the missing words after a few go-throughs, but I didn't feel I was learning from the exercise so I stopped.

And I did report an error to them from the website (and got a response), but I didn't follow up on it as I had decided to quit by the time I got the response. (It didn't take them a long time to respond, it's just that when I reported the error, I was close to quitting.)

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

Busuu often comes up with 50-60% off PremiumPlus discounts.
Just wait a bit.
You can catch one for 40€/year.

They don't seem to offer a true unlimited LIFETIME subscription like Ouino offers it or how I managed to catch a Mosalingua "Lifetime languages fluency bundle Premium subscription" on a BlackFriday sale for all the available modules (MosaSpeak, MosaStories, incl. all app bonus packs).

A Busuu subscription also includes ALL languages.

Babbel for example asks for 120€/year (two accounts, more languages), Mango is more expensive for more than one language and Pimsleur Premium app asks for 22€/months for ALL language access.

Last edited by Thomas.Heiss on Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

Last edited by Thomas.Heiss on Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

dochawk wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am

On the much brighter side, in each group (unit?) of lessons, there is a speech/writing exercise (you choose), which is sent to native speakers to "correct."

I would call them sub modules or exercises.
Sometimes lessons are split into multiple parts - of multiple types (dialogue, Vocabulary, Practice, grammar quiz, reading,..).
Sometimes one lesson consists just of one speaking/writing exercise (posted to the community as a PremiumPlus subscriber), sometimes they are the last sub exercise of a lesson which taught other things first.

However, at French lesson 29 in the A2 course the progress bar includes the second writing exercise part and combines both - in one single progress bar.
If you skip it, the progress from the first lesson is removed and a warning will show up about cancelling the exercise.
Very annoying!
I complained to staff several times but it seems they don't understand me.

After a hard break of several weeks on that stupid lesson 29 I found out that I can simply continue on the Android app and ignore that the previous lesson won't be marked as completed.

Maybe the Spanish course runs into similar issues.

The French A1 course worked differently and always allowed me to end the community exercises and I never lost progress.

The French (A1) course got some updates and seems to be changed or extended.

dochawk wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am

It's designed so that each lesson unlocks the next, but you can go to the unit test, which unlocks the lessons of the unit as well as a lesson or two forward.

There have been made changes to the Web portal and iOS in 2022 with the A1/A2 and B1/B2 or C1 (English) grouping of lessons (like Duolingo filters).

It's true, later lessons are always LOCKED.
You need to follow the strict order on a free account.
Or do the checkpoint module/unit tests (French has about 10+ chapters per grouped A1-B2 module) to unlock the next one.

Even if you're a Premium Plus subscriber the Web code change forces that strict order.

All the nice sub module / sub exercise view got removed, dunno why.

But on the Android app you can skip over lessons, incl. some (not all) community speaking/writing exercises.
I have a bit older app version installed from November 2022.
It still shows all the sub exercises - with types - per lesson.

dochawk wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am

I got to the end of A1, at which point there's a test, but to move on from there without doing every single lesson you need to be a paid member.

Applies to Android then.

Premium Plus users are locked out too on the Web/iOS.
You can't skip over writing/speaking community exercises or other lessons and any sub exercises.

However you can make use of the unit/module checkpoints on the Web, which my old Android app doesn't show.
That filtering and checkpoint tests and the end of each unit chapter is a quite new thing.

Support told me they have plans to roll it out in the current form to the Android app one day.
Can't say for sure if they already did that in February 2023.
There were other updates in January or December, but they wrote to me they were not related to that.

dochawk wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am

Oh, and there's no way to report errors as in duolingo.

My Android app from November has a report button for each exercise and sentence?!

But more often an "error server connection failed" message shows up. Sometimes the report goes through without an error.

Unlike Duolingo there is no community forum to see other user reports.

Also I'm unsure if and when and in what cycle their linguistic team works on user reports.

The other option is to open a general ticket with an id in their support system if you have general questions or feedback, not related to a single sentence or dialogue exercise.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

An interesting feature is the Android app with the debug flag.

I enabled "Show all grammar review items" and I got a bunch of additional lessons - on the Web portal - on their new A1/A2 French module/unit layout in the middle of chapters.

They ask me all the time to update...but I'm scared that the new Web layout will be rolled out.
It removed the exercise view per lesson.
On Android a list gets shown what several types are there and I can click one or review a specific video/dialogue.

The Web (and Ios) removes this sub view and I somehow failed to explain to them in more detail why it makes no sense rolling out their Web implemenation in the current form.
I'm not a fan when something nice gets completely removed.

The new Web UI hides all this.
A sub exercise now starts automatically when you click on a lesson per course unit+chapter.

Support told me you can only review when ALL exercises are completed within a lesson.

This is of course a problem as I always felt that I want to skip the Speaking/Writing exercises as I started there with French from scratch as a PremiumPlus subscriber.

In your case with Spanish it's a bit different as you've already learned a lot on Duolingo which will surely help to master challenging exercises.
I always felt overwhelmed.

And now I'm locked out to continue with the A2 French course as the next lesson can't unlock....

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
dochawk
United States of America

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by dochawk »

i took the premium trial today.

I tried the A2 test-out.

It began immediately rattling off a conversation with no suggestion as to what was about to happen. It seems that you are supposed to be filling in from the buttons bottom of the screen as it goes.

Which would be more practical if it actually showed them all.

It said i had 15 minutes, but showed no timer, and the progress bars seemed to be for sub-sections, not the entire test.

Which had a couple of formats and instructions that I'd never seen before.

And a two week wait to take it again.

I'm very not impressed so far, and expect to cancel.

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

@dochawk

Thats the end A2 exam then.
It says you shall be able to complete within 15 minutes on average but of course you're allowed that it takes 30-45 minutes.
15 minutes is hardly possible.

Of course there's no ticking timer, thanks god there's not.

PS: If you ever have plans to go through all the A2 lessons sequentially, and you should because of all the different Busuu exercise types and much higher difficulty level (reading, listening, videos, dialogues,..) the passed A2 exam at the end will track a wrong fluency score and will make the Daily Goal of the Study plan go corrupt on Android.

Support was not able to delete the French A2 exam score I took and passed (with luck).

Premium Plus offers a custom goal and you can see daily XPs (e.g. 30/50).

But when you've passed the A2 exam it doesn't work anymore, nothing will be shown at the app header anymore.
Busuu forces that you create a new B1 goal in the study plan.
Can't reset the wrong A2 fluency score....or delete the A2 exam score.
Support didn't do that either.

It definitely makes only sense to pass any A1/2 exams if you speak a second language for 26 years or something (like English) or want to see a more challenging test after learning it for 6-11+ years.

And no, Duolingo alone will not prepare you for this Busuu stuff!

Yes, I got placed at Busuu B1 lesson 1 in Portuguese after 5+ years.
But seeing the complexity of the A1 and A2 French course and more harder listening challenging to fast soeaking natives or full dialogues and videos I will probably redo all the A1 + A2 Portuguese lessons at a time.

Somewhere around lesson marker (20-25) 30-40 difficulty suddenly boosts up very quickly...at least in the French course.

How was your Busuu Spanish A1 exam?
Was it pure listening like I saw it with French A1?
A2 gave me the dialogue with texts and cloze-deletions (like B1+B2 Portuguese, English C1), but A1 French heavily focused on listening, no dialogue texts.

If you got placed at A2 lesson 40: Congrats.
I hardly can place accurately on Busuu French with the big jumps in the test even I have sequentially run through all A1 lessons and A2 up to 38.

I definitely don't recommend to finalize the A2 exam if you got only placed at lesson 40!!!

Duolingo content and verb tenses, Subjunctive forms might qualify you for more, so you have a better base than I will ever have with French as a true beginner (I don't do Duolingo), but realistically spoken, it's much better to do all Busuu lessons from the top, one by one sequentially.

Duolingo heavily focuses on single word translations.
French (like Spanish probably) CEFR courses seems to introduce some paragraph exercises in the units and levels where you often have to fill in two blanks.
Saw the different challenge form at unit 28 when I tried the jump.
Unfortunately French audio is missing and Camilo's TreeEnhancer code got corrupted by the path update and runs amok not finding several JS variables.
Duolingo always places me around unit 27 but I'm sure I don't understand everything and tapping of course is too easy and gives the FALSE positives if we can guess simply our way.

But that doesn't mean that Duolingo directly qualifies us for violent audio listening exercises, reading full texts, getting asked comprehension questions, A1 videos without subtitles, seeing long and complex sentences with words I have not learned yet, hearing any audio without English translations, etc.

Summary:
If the Busuu Spanish is any similar to their quick paced French course, not created for a true beginner, I can't recommend to skip any lesson!

The Busuu exams at the bottom make more sense once you've done every single lesson sequentially.
If you like you can try a Web checkpoint per A1 or A2 chapter. There is a minimum passing rate (85% or something).

I was able to test out Portuguese B1+B2 exams too, but that only gives a wrong impression.
Busuu only placed me at B1 lesson. Don't know upper intermediate vocabulary as I had to stop the two big Memrise courses.
Even then I am going to find A1+A2 lessons for a thorough review to be challenging, I'm convinced it will become that way.

Clicking through an A1 or A2 lesson won't take too long if you know all vocabulary.
The Android app (from last year) will show in the sub view what lessons like dialogues or texts will be challenging.

The English exams aren't too boring for my 28+ years of knowledge either.
Even the A2 Business starter English exam asks for some challenging stuff which I would NOT know in Portuguese immediately and I really have no clue about in French or Spanish. There is a shorter French Business course too.

Worst thing to do on Busuu is trying to SKIP too many lessons.
The French placement test is challenging alone and for some reason it doesn't find the exact sweat spot of the content which I know better.
Questions often are too difficult, getting ahead far too much and with several errors in the test I get placed lower.
And there's the French nightmare about male vs feminine nouns, what adjectives go before or after a noun.
Busuu focuses more on formal Romance grammar.
Because of this it also tests you also on that grammar stuff in quizzes, in the exam, asks detailed questions testing you your understanding so you better used a grammar book and not just the very superficial staff's mobile tips,...
When I get those answers wrong from lessons I have already forgotten, the scores go down which means it can't place me accurately that easily.

Best is to know Subjunctive, imoerfect, direct vs indirect object pronouns, conditional and all that stuff if you want to at least have a chance to place higher.

And as you've already recognized, seeing full paragraphs, hearing videos or reading full texts and getting asked comprehension tests, not hearing the audio or getting played the audio at the end but without having the text in front of you is a very different story.

I wish I had 4-6 years or more of French knowledge under my belt.

Don't have the impression I can talk about Wakeboarding, RC heli flying and what I have done last 1-2 weekends :-)
AFAIU that was the point where Dr. Luis von Ahn was criticized when learning French on Duolingo.
Would I mangle my tenses? Probably...even in Portuguese.

Without Memrise word drills (typed RECALLING tests on the Web on a Pc) I actually tend to forget a lot of what I've learned on Busuu.
Need to review a lot in blocks...and they continue to change the A1 course.

Busuu and Mondly is the next level where Mondly focuses more on tapping of word banks.
Mondly lessons (two person dialogues) can get more challenging too.
Extra modules often use complicated vocabulary.

Don't give up.
Busuu was invented for the learners with nerves made of steel when you're bored from all the other learning apps and want to see something fresh.

It takes a while to adopt to it and take on the other much more higher excercise difficulty level, best as a false beginner.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

I took the Premium trial today.
I tried the A2 test-out.

End test or chapter checkpoint?

There also seem to be differences on the Android app (single paragraphs, audio plays step by step) vs Web where the full dialogue gets played once without any break.

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

It began immediately rattling off a conversation with no suggestion as to what was about to happen.

That's only in the Web then :-)

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

It seems that you are supposed to be filling in from the buttons bottom of the screen as it goes.

Yes, they test your logical thinking and vocabulary knowledge and if you understand the dialogue paragraphs.

But I don't like their current implemenation with word banks.
You can't fail an answer 1-2 times like that.
If you confuse 2-3 words you can correct them later after the submit button or even before when you quickly ran out of fitting words for non-matching blanks.

The real lesson on the A2 course offers English translations under each paragraph.
The app also halts while the Web rattles through.
Can't play the audio of the dialogue 3-5 times on the Web, sadly to say.

As I said before, not everything makes sense in the current implementions.
You need to be open to try around.
Developers IMHO need to polish their product a bit more. There's a good base, but some details lack customization and flexibility or accuracy.

As you do the A2 final exam of course the English translations are gone, or should be.
Doubt you will be ready only learning Spanish from Duolingo.

Full audio dialogue play is of course more realistic.
Berlitz doesn't make it different and has a 1 time replay policy.
But then it shall be possible to repeat 2-3 times.
Compare that to Mosalingua.

If you want to have it easier:
Use the Android app.
It halts after each paragraph where you need to fill in a word. You can reply the audio multiple times.
The normal lesson offers the translation.
On Android it will be shown below the paragraph, on the Web the whole dialogue page seems to switch back and forth. I'm not a big fan of that style.

The two Web vs Android teaching or testing philosophies are not close by, very distinct.
Busuu tends to remove useful features which do exist on the Android app.

Some implemention tends to be incomplete not thought well through, like missing RECALLING tests, not giving the true accurate score (accuracy rates, not supporting guessing, no on screen hints); it allows to correct before you get the ooint graded.

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

Which would be more practical if it actually showed them all.

Doubt I can retry an exam on the Web.
But yeah, all words should be there.
Sometimes there are 2-3 rows, aren't there?!
Maybe you need to zoom out to see them all.

I'm surprised they chose the word banks.
That way I can't put the wrong words into the paragraph blanks I didn't understand well.
When I'm done with all that I usually recognize that 2-3 or at least one were misplaced.

Free typing and showing the one missing English word in it's base form would be better.
Of course it's then even more challenging then, nothing for a true beginner.
Maybe a difficulty setting would help to better fit it for different users.

At least the dialogue shall support that I can wrongly place words and let me submit.
It normally marks the used words on Android. So I can't misuse the words once and get a correct accuracy score.
It's too obvious that remaining words from a word bank don't directly fit into other blanks where I understood the word and the paragraph without or with English translations.

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

Which had a couple of formats and instructions that I'd never seen before.

What do you mean specifically?
Busuu has several exercise types.

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

And a two week wait to take it again.

Only works on the old Android app.

The Web change only allows to take the test once and not again.
Busuu upport confirmed this change.
It was different before.

That shown retake policy is outdated and doesn't apply to newer apps or IOS (same change to my knowledge like on the Web, but I don't own an Apple device).

Once again, I can't recommend to take the A2 final exam test if you have not run through all lessons sequentially before.

Doing normal lessons - preferably on Android - won't hide too many things from you and nake dialogues overcomplicating.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
buho

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by buho »

I am using Busuu. It's way better than Duolingo.
But don't put high hopes on it as it was bought by Chegg in November last year.

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

November 2021 for $436 millions.

That was when I bought their PremiumPlus subscription with a 50-60% off deal ;)
Thought it would teach me French a bit more slowly, not be overwhelming for a true beginner, deeper, maybe with a proven teacher concept which blends out too difficult words, complicated dialogues, videos with missing FR legends or EN translations.

No idea how I shall retain everything.
Can't mark and save unknown vocabulary in Csv export form.

Hopefully I can successfully play around with MosaDiscovery.... but then I need to be able to mark words/phrases on the phone...or maybe I review Busuu French content on the web portal and use MosaDiscovery there when I can see that shown words are weak words.

Months laters my A2 exam score still is not deleted, many things are still unclear and they don't have plans to stop the Android rollout in its current form from the Web page.

I see it coming that I maybe buy one day a true Podcast French learning set (with good explanations/grammar) from a real teacher which uses a more round pedagogical teaching concept.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
dochawk
United States of America

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by dochawk »

End test or chapter checkpoint?

A2 -> B1.

But yeah, all words should be there.
Sometimes there are 2-3 rows, aren't there?!
Maybe you need to zoom out to see them all.

zooming did nothing.

Eventually, by accident, I found that the lower area scrolls separately, using two fingers on a Mac trackpad.

dochawk wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:19 am

Which had a couple of formats and instructions that I'd never seen before.

What do you mean specifically?
Busuu has several exercise types.

that. And some never appeared before the A2 test-out.

User avatar
dochawk
United States of America

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by dochawk »

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:19 am

Once again, I can't recommend to take the A2 final exam test if you have not run through all lessons sequentially before.

I am way past having done those. Not on Buusu, but both on duolingo and in the past.

My high school Spanish was probably the equivalent of about three years of college Spanish. I was borderline fluent, often thinking in the language.

And then it didn't get used for thirty years, at which point, after a few months of translators in the room for client interviews, I was occasionally correcting their mistakes and answering.

According to my alumni office, in what is surely a mistake, last year's reunion marked 40 years.

I got thrown into A2 on Busuu because I had trouble figuring out what some of the lesson types were, and couldn't access parts of some of the answers.

User avatar
FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

I took a premium on Busuu to review my Arabic from scratch. I finished the Duo Arabic course but it's flawed so I didn't took the risk of a placement test.

So now I'm flying over the first lessons. I learned a lot with Duo but surprisingly didn't learn basics like "how are you?"

I like the peer corrections, there are really tough challenges where you have to describe a picture, invent a story or describe your family.

For those who are interested, I've five 30 days invitations, but I'm not sure what are the advantages of the paying version vs free version, apart no ads.

https://app.busuu.com/jjxzxMtRHU95XeSk7

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

User avatar
PtolemysXX
Uganda

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by PtolemysXX »

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:07 pm

I took a premium on Busuu to review my Arabic from scratch. I finished the Duo Arabic course (...)
https://app.busuu.com/jjxzxMtRHU95XeSk7

Once you get more exposure with Arabic @busuu I'll be happy to read your impressions, especially a comparison busuu vs. Duolingo...

User avatar
FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

PtolemysXX wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:02 pm

Once you get more exposure with Arabic @busuu I'll be happy to read your impressions, especially a comparison busuu vs. Duolingo...

Well, just after my comment, I started 16th unit of the A1 beginner course. I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed.

This lesson introduces some words about appearance (big, small, short, long, young, old) and for every adjective it gives the masculine and feminine variations without giving any clue on short vowels and some weird endings (-tun, -an). Maybe this will come on next lessons about short vowels. Anyway, the level of difficulty raises very sharply! I could manage to get through this (with my duolingo knowledge) but then I had an exercise whose goal was to describe myself or someone I know. I don't have all the required vocabulary (even after Duolingo) but the Busuu learners have to chance to have it.

New elements are introduced but I didn't figure out how revisions works, you have to select a word bank and you can revise them, but for instance if I start them I'm given a sentence in Arabic (I'm from England) and I'm supposed to type this directly ... in Arabic ! I've never had a chance to work on this.

Plus, but this is mainly because I'm 57, the Arabic writings on Busuu are way too small for my eyes.

I'm a bit surprised by the Busuu method. The Duolingo course has some flaws, the use of "colloquial MSA", it's too short and misses most of A1 vocabulary (absolutely not CEFR aligned), speech recognition does not work (maybe because of non standard MSA) but the Duolingo method (at its best) is as of today the best I've seen (well Assimil is better but their e-method sucks).

I think I'll redo the Arabic course with the path and check Turkish on Busuu, or cancel my subscription.

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm
PtolemysXX wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:02 pm

Once you get more exposure with Arabic @busuu I'll be happy to read your impressions, especially a comparison Busuu vs. Duolingo...

Well, just after my comment, I started 16th unit of the A1 beginner course. I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed.

Arabic has no separate Pronunciation course, unlike Dutch, French, English,...

The French A1 course of course has several dedicated formal grammar (written tips) or pronunciation lessons included, reserved for Premium(Plus) members.
There was a fine line between Premium vs PremiumPlus, can't remember all details right now; was Plus only about Speaking/Writing and exams (earlier McGraw-Hill now the logo is missing)?

I don't have it added so I can't see on my Non-Premium account how the "Complete Arabic" course is structured internally.
Does it really contain intermediate and advanced material?
How many lessons does the first (A1) part/section have?

  • French A1 has 96 lessons + several reviews.
  • French A2 has 105 lessons.
  • Some more Web checkpoints per A1 or A2 chapter.
  • Additional review lessons somewhere in the middle on the Web once activated.
FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

...and for every adjective it gives the masculine and feminine variations without giving any clue on short vowels and some weird endings (-tun, -an). Maybe this will come on next lessons about short vowels.

Hmm, what is the content of the first 15 lessons then? ;)
With Busuu it hardly makes sense using a placement test if you only come from Duolingo.
You will miss too much of given content.

With their French A1 course my main issue was the non-linear progress, constant usage of unknown words not introduced first, hard and long sentence examples using vocabulary from the A2 section like I
"Il fait", direct and indirect object pronouns, etc.
I've installed and bought Dr. French grammar and Fastlingo apps now.

Strongly recommend to search for a good Arabic introduction resource.

Often the audio was absent or the EN translations missing, or no FR could be read in parallel.
Not always, but here and there, especially within grammar lessons.

Does the Arabic course has dedicated grammar lessons and tips? Pronunciation lessons?

With the debug flag of an earlier app version I could activate more French lesson reviews on the Web which were not there before. I was quite surprised - good practice.
Would need to create a separate account to play around with Arabic.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

Anyway, the level of difficulty raises very sharply!

Definitely this!
It happened around lessons 25-30 of the A1 French course, maybe earlier.
If you never heard of "veux" and such stuff, you'll be just surprised about its early usage.

Don't miss any dialogues, reading texts, videos or harder example sentences (often with vocabulary you have not learned up to this point)!

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

I could manage to get through this (with Duolingo knowledge) but then I had an exercise whose goal was to describe myself or someone I know.

Never felt ready for those community challenges in French, maybe English (28+ years of constant practice and learning) or Portuguese (6+ years).

The French Busuu course is NOT for true beginners.
So I doubt the Arabic course will truly be.
Of course, it's made by another linguistic team, so there will be differences.

You probably need to try to get the basics from somewhere else, a learning resource which focuses on this Arabic language and correct dialect incl. sounds, writing,...if Busuu doesn't introduce it gradually, starting from scratch.

Have in mind that I had learned Portuguese for 5 years (Duolingo, Memrise, Mondly, 50languages) before I got started with French on Busuu.
This means I know a kot of Romance beginner stuff and sometimes I can guess it in French or at least complicated concepts are quicker to pick up.

Starting with a category IV) language, rated by FSI as super hard, would be VERY different for me.
Also for French a lot of similarities are given from English.
En + Pt makes my French learning a bit easier. Don't want to think about how it would be without no similarities, starting totally from scratch.
Then I would need baby steps...which Busuu alone probably can't deliver?!??

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

I don't have all the required vocabulary (even after Duolingo) but the Busuu learners have to chance to have it.

Which brings me back to the earlier lessons which you skipped over (with the placement test).

For French it was a mixture:

Sometimes hard to follow, best used with a translator app (on Android), Accessibility "Select to Speak" for TTS play activated or checking all words carefully and adding flashcards early on in this process; on the Web I want to try the MosaDiscovery browser extension (from Mosalingua).
No, I've not done anything like that in my first year, not even now.

Memorion is another Android app for SRS but I haven't checked if Arabic vocabulary is available with the two repositories.

Leaving out Memrise and typing didn't work out too well for French. Worked much better with Portuguese.
Didn't use Duolingo before for French.

But I wanted to focus more on the speaking side of the French language. Will hopefully catch up with the rest.

Repetition:
I had to restart the Busuu French A1 course multiple times after a few lesson blocks.
It's hardly possible to grasp the examples at the first run.
I more quickly forget earlier vocabulary without strict Memrise SR cycles, 4-12h error repeats and if I'm not forced into typing.
So while progressing in the course to lessons 25-30, 50, 70-80... there's a specific time where you finally don't understand anything anymore and just feel overwhelmed.
-er, -ir and -re verbs were introduced in tables but often the lesson didn't fully introduce all of them. In the placement test I get a lot of these wrong.
Better look everything up incl. verb conjugation charts externally.

So I regularly restart with lessons from the top or from lesson X.
And now tend to forget the complicated stuff from the A1 end or the middle as I don't quickly enough finish reviewing from the top :-)

Better define your own SR cycles, pick up a notebook, write down the learning date of lesson X and use a Leitner box or similar Memrise SR cycle when to exactly review which lesson.

It's up to you when to continue with new lessons, how many, when to stop, restart or review.

Complicated verb stuff from the previous day can be a nice quick review the other day when you start with a review.

The old Android app version still has the old sub modules view what is exactly contained in a lesson.
So you can hit the respective buttons to redo exercises or to see if a reading text, dialogue or video is contained.

I know that you have some previous MSA knowledge from Duolingo, but will not suggest to push through a Busuu course in one go.
I think with lacking SR concepts it's important to stop at block X, restart from 0 or in the middle so you don't forget too much.

The Duolingo path uses previous crown levels for at least 2-3 repeats and introducing longer and harder sentences with mixed exercises, which may not be immediately available from crown level 0 as the sentence moved up the chain because of higher user errors.

With Busuu you need to find your own pace and when to stop.
Alone adding "Select to Speak" Android Accessibility feature and hearing all the sentences from grammar lessons or where audio was missing made a big difference to me as I can then repeat aloud the French sentence.

Researching UNKNOWN vocabulary or writing those phrases down on paper will make your life easier.
For Arabic or any Asian languages AFAIU this a MUST-HAVE?!
So push yourself into writing down the symbols.
Of course I didn't do this with French.
Not using the Busuu vocabulary review for some time will heavily backfire if you do too many new lessons continuously.
I can't IGNORE words there, so I'll be half killed with Viennoiseries words I have just tried to ignore for a longer time (lesson done, accept but move on).

I tend to understand and recognizing French adjectives, but having to type them out on an empty text field without an hints is something different.
Without practicing this on Memrise or another SRS application (Pc) my accuracy won't be very high.

A good didactical course shall probably use words very wisely and a should not anticipate words from a later section/unit/chapter but it was not impression that Busuu handled this very carefully.
Maybe your Arabic course is different and doesn't run into the same limitations which I had to fight around with French.
Should have consulted external FR resources early on.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

New elements are introduced but I didn't figure out how revisions works, you have to select a word bank and you can revise them, but for instance if I start them I'm given a sentence in Arabic (I'm from England) and I'm supposed to type this directly ... in Arabic ! I've never had a chance to work on this.

Ah yes, the Android (and Web) vocabulary review makes use of the RECALLING technique to check your accuracy.
Always have to do this in French, the target language.

So you didn't have to type on Duolingo? I know that for some courses with foreign scripts like Cyrillic (Russian) staff had disabled this.
Only tapping around on word banks of course won't prepare you for the next big typing step.

I also have my difficulty remembering French words on Busuu, especially all this patisseries stuff.

Busuu makes use of cloze-deletion exercises, like Lingvist.
Duolingo Web had given the option of full typing and pushed you into learning how to construct sentences with applied grammar and verb conjugations.

Honestly, haven't used the vocabulary review on Busuu too much on the phone (French keyboard is added on Android) as two old Laptops broke down and I can only occasionally borrow/use another one.
Haven't rebuilt a Joy-It keyboard Pc either as it went too warm and existing cooling was not sufficient.

The big trouble is that the French course often uses words and examples or phrases in videos/audio/texts/dialogues but all that many vocabulary doesn't necessarily show up in the "vocabulary review" section.

There is IMHO no way around adding all words/phrases of Busuu content manually to a good SRS application or starting somewhere else with the basics and to learn the first hundreds of basic words.

With Portuguese I used Memrise (Web, full typing) in parallel. They've restructured their website; userscript support for Tampermonkey is gone, unfortunately.

Also used VT languagecourse.net/vocabulary-trainer.php here and there.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

Plus, but this is mainly because I'm 57, the Arabic writings on Busuu are way too small for my eyes.

How is the Android app?
It seems to respect my text size/ display size settings.
Maybe Accessibility works better there.
Or do you only use the Busuu website?
Another way could be installing Stylus browser extension and changing the CSS font size or even the font.
I read on a scripting site that some languages required this on Duolingo.

Haven't tried with Asian languages, Hindi, Arabic, etc.

Also do you have browser zoom set to at least 133% on the Pc?

The mobile Chrome browser is horrible as it doesn't respect Accessibility 155% font size.
Works much better with Firefox Nightly.
Some websites may miss important Accessibility tags where each browser is asking for different ones.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

Assimil is better but their e-method sucks

What do you mean? The Android app is not good? The e-form sucks?

I have installed French 2020 but have not intensively tested it; is not cheap. Earlier versions are separated.

Maybe a book is better.
I only have a 6.67* screen here but honestly, all is enough complicated that I doubt I would pick up a book right now....too much going on in personal life.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:24 pm

I think I'll redo the Arabic course with the path and check Turkish on Busuu

If Turkish has no dedicated grammar lessons and tips or only partly introduces important concepts you will have a hard time.

FSI rates it more difficult.

Some languages contain a lot of content on Busuu. My French content also seems to change so it is being worked on.

You guys seem to expect the same for Arabic and Turkish courses.
Hope you won't be disappointed.
If you do any comparisons do it for Es/Fr/Pt or De.
Dutch also got added.

For Asian and very foreign script languages I would probably check out resources which have focused on that language as a main language.

How complete can the Arabic or Turkish course (heard nothing too good about Chinese) be when the company is located in the UK and got bought by a US company?

Check Reddit... what do other true/false beginners and learners specifically say??

Hope you won't be overwhelmed as a true beginner.

As I said earlier: A course curriculum should follow a good didactical approach.
Things shall be introduced slowly at the right time.
And videos/audios with missing subtitles or missing EN translations are not a good starting point.
I've already requested some changes in the A1 French course.
In the A2 course I saw some subtitles present but recorded sound quality (of one person showing up in one video) wasn't always the greatest and I couldn't follow the audio+ text easily (the second person was very different, had good voice, didn't speak too fast).
Text was not in sync and I had to pause all the time.

Knowing how French was for me I wouldn't bother with starting Arabic or Turkish there without having a very good foundation from another basic course and personal tutor to discuss problems.

IMHO you need someone to catch you and being able to break things down for you when you can't keep up with the quick pace and introduced dialogues, texts,... and suddenly increasing difficulty levels.

No, I've NOT started the two languages on Busuu and I also don't know them from other resources.
Keep that in mind that I can only give very general suggestions coming from other languages.

Could I do Busuu A1 and A2 Portuguese sections?
Yes, and I still expect a lot of difficult reading/dialogue/video to show up for several lessons.
After multiple resources and 6 years it's better manageable for me of course.
Was placed at B1 lesson 1.
Harder stuff in French doesn't start at B1 but much earlier.

Edit: Found some typing issues. I was on mobile. Will try to review and fix later.

Last edited by Thomas.Heiss on Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

User avatar
FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:08 am

(...)

Thanks for your exhaustive reply. I agree with you that Busuu is not really for beginners, or at least not the kind of beginner that is accustomed to Duolingo.

I've the Assimil Arabic (from French) course which is very good but I'm focusing on Android Apps because it's way more easy to carry a smartphone everywhere than a book with notebooks, or a computer.

I managed to get a 1111+ day streak and (more or less) learn many languages because of this ubiquity (especially in my bed) of the learning method, so my remarks and observations are targeted to the Android App versions.

I sometimes use the computer version when on my desk, for Arabic I have the Wudooh that makes Arabic looks fine. The problem with the Arabic font is that it's smaller than other fonts. You can raise your PC or Smartphone fontsize, but Arabic fonts will always be smaller, to get a proper size, all of other fonts will become HUGE.

Typing vs word bank : on Duolingo I usually leave the defaults, if a word bank is proposed, I use it, if typiing is required, I type. Sometimes you can replace typing by speaking, which I often use.
Typing with a Smartphone is cool because you always have a virtual keyboard and predictive input. In the Turkish course you're asked to type quite early and it is ok because it's very easy to write Turkish because it's phonetic. On the contrary Arabic is very difficult, if you don't know the word you've to listen many times to make sure you don't mix long and short vowels, or mix between the various Hs or Rs. In other word you have to know the words. The Arabic course never proposed to type words, so I only used the word bank. Eventhough I was able to type a lot of word, it was just a very long process.

I'm currently halfway of the Turkish course on Duolingo and I've finised the Arabic course some years ago. My goal is to find one or more Apps that will allow me to :

  • go past the Duolingo Turkish course when I'll be done with it
  • relearn and enhance my Arabic

On Busuu Arabic, I tried the placement test but started the course from scratch, so I didn't miss any knowledge. After ten units, that required only some hours of work, I reached the famous exercice "Describe yourself or a person you know". You are supposed to give a verbal or written answer.

Hint: إنّها شابّة. لديها شعرٌ طويل. ولديها عينان زرقاوان.

At this stage (imagine you've been learning Arabic for some hours), it's nearly impossible to understand that hint (which misses all short vowels), even if you remember the words, it's difficult to read them without the short vowels (it's a bit like chinese without pinyin).

You can theorically fullfill the assignement if you study and record all samples given during the lesson, but this requires a lot of personal work. The kind of work that Duo will ask you to do in one or two units that represents days. With Busuu you make it in ten minutes but then you're stuck. Automated memorization does not seem to be a feature of Busuu, unlike Duolingo.

In other words I don't think I'll continue with Busuu. If someone is interested by a yearly subscription, I can give it for free if I'm able to change the linked email and other personal informations (PM me).

In the meanwhile I took the 1$ one month subscription for https://www.turkishclass101.com and http://www.arabicpod101.com they are both parts of https://www.innovativelanguage.com/

I spent some times on the Arabic course. It looks way better with nice audios and a lot of explanations. The first assessments were well balanced and you can set the font size, which is very good. It has many interesting featureas. I'll see how good memorization will be.

I won't talk about it here, but I recently tested Memrise and Drops, as supplemental tools. My global opinion is that Duolingo is still the best method I've experienced. You can learn a lot of things without having to worry about what to learn, what to revise, etc. You only have to follow the path and fullfill the quests if you want (which I recommend).

A last word on Assimil. It's a great method, I used the Chinese book for years. The e-method sucks because it follows the book logic but it is not as convenient as a book (you can't quickly browse previous pages, find personal notes and highlights). I've gone through 7 lessons in Ukrainian but abandoned because it was tedious.

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

@FurbyZeKat, I had similar problems to the ones you describe trying to do Busuu Arabic. I did the free version for a couple weeks than gave it up.

User avatar
Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

but I'm focusing on Android Apps because it's way more easy to carry a smartphone everywhere than a book with notebooks, or a computer.
so my remarks and observations are targeted to the Android App versions.

  • If you have not done already: Install Twilight which allows color modification.
  • During the day I set it to 4500k (indoors), only outdoors in bright sun daylight (up to 1300 nits on the Redmi Note 10 Pro) I pause Twilight and run with full color depth (6500k?) from the Oled / Super Amoled screen.
  • In the evening with some lamps on I change the Default profile to 3400k.
  • "Bed reading" (with all light off) is set to 1000k. 1500 might also do.

f.Lux (installed on the Windows Laptop) has some colour suggestions and automatically changes colors based on the "recommended settings" and default day-night curve.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

The problem with the Arabic font is that it's smaller than other fonts.
You can raise your PC or Smartphone font size, but Arabic fonts will always be smaller, to get a proper size, all of other fonts will become HUGE.

Not with Tampermonkey userscripts or Stylus CSS stylesheets on the web portal; but I'm not sure if you can search for an Arabic language flag in the html code if you have multiple language pairs active or how Camilo is doing it.

Found one yesterday for Arabic, no idea if it works (can't quickly find it right now).
There also is a "Font text size" userscript which you can only apply to Duolingo (Web).
Also was into modifying sizes and colors (red text on red background vs green text on green background) on my own a while ago but got drifted away; only for DE/EN/PT.

Tampermonkey and Stylus is not available for the Android app, so if you use the Duolingo app, there is some limitation if you're not happy with the Arabic font or size on the app.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

Typing vs word bank : on Duolingo I usually leave the defaults, if a word bank is proposed, I use it, if typing is required, I type.
....

Staff changed again the behaviour of www.duolingo.com/practice.
For my Portuguese course I suddenly see very long PT sentences and reading all the jumbled EN word banks from left to right on 1080p takes more concentration.
Sometimes I wonder why the resolution on the borrowed Laptop screen needs to be like this. My old 14" Laptop was better readable as the width area was more restricted.
Hard to carefully check all (mixed up) EN words - takes more time for my eyes than blind typing.
Honestly, I find this new approach more exhaustive.

The 0-9 + A-Z hotkey numbering on the word bubbles with the Tampermonkey userscript or "word bank drag and drop" (which functionality the Android app also does NOT provide compared to IOS!) makes the process a bit easier, so yeah, you can also use this for Arabic or other writing system script languages if you don't like typing in the target language (does Duolingo force you into typing? Can you decide to go back to word banks for those hard languages?).

But honestly, I enjoy being able to simply type the first 2 letters in English, than to scan the bubbles for the right hotkey.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

On Busuu Arabic, I tried the placement test but started the course from scratch, so I didn't miss any knowledge.

Thanks for the clarification.
Re-reading your above comment I noticed I understood it the wrong way. Sorry about that.
I think JudieLC might have done it a bit differently in one of the other Arabic threads when I suggested Busuu to her - can't remember - need to check that thread again what was said.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

Hint: إنّها شابّة. لديها شعرٌ طويل. ولديها عينان زرقاوان.
At this stage (imagine you've been learning Arabic for some hours), it's nearly impossible to understand that hint (which misses all short vowels), even if you remember the words, it's difficult to read them without the short vowels (it's a bit like chinese without pinyin).

100% agreed.
Those exercises are hard enough in French, so I don't do them.
For Portuguese it might be the right challenge after so many years, but better with a personal didactical tutor.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

You can theorically fullfill the assignement if you study and record all samples given during the lesson, but this requires a lot of personal work.

You and everyone else can check out ChatterBug www.chatterbug.com for Spanish/German/French/English which offers:

  • a FREE Android app (for streams = playing recorded videos by tutors)
  • or to join their website and a more costly monthly subscription for a personal course cirriculum.

They describe the Web course that you do those type of exercises with a personal tutor "in a live lesson" and offer 4 packages with 1/4/8/31 live lessons per month if you are on a real budget.
Still have not found out how the "Lite package" actually works with just one live lesson and 20 Euros per months but the additional self-study option.

For the Android streams app I know that Clubs do exist on mobile which are shorter group exercises lead by tutor.
You need some kind of subscription for that.
I'm not up-to-date about the latest changes and offers and if clubs do still exist.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

In the meanwhile I took the 1$ one month subscription for https://www.turkishclass101.com and http://www.arabicpod101.com they are both parts of https://www.innovativelanguage.com/

Wow! $1??
99 Euros / 24 months = 4,13 Euros

Would love to retry the PortuguesePod101 learning options (audio/videos) on the Android mobile app.
When I got a Premium offer end of 2017 (or 2018) for two years I only logged it 2-3 times, clicked a bit around and actually NEVER made it to install the right players on the old Windows PC and I was pretty unsure where to start.
Couldn't push forward and force me into using their website.
That's the main issue when there is no clear placement test like it exists with Mango or Busuu.
Or have you found one? Does it exist?
How shall I know which category filter to select and where to specifically start from when I have completed the Duolingo and Mondly Portuguese course (no, not all crown levels)?

Got a weird mail from the company in 2018 or 2019 that "some suspecious activity" was seen and they locked my account?! Maybe I got hacked. Couldn't bother to discuss this in detail as other things ran over me in personal life.

So yeah, I paid for a subscription service I NEVER really used actively :-)
And now that I could retry them on my Android smartphone with the better software available and nice dual speakers (the Redmi Note 10 Pro has excellent sound!) I can't continue as it was not a LIFETIME membership - not a pay once, use forever thing.

Some language blogs showed more costly lifetime or multiple-language offers on the Black Friday / Cyber week as promo links.
Those were different offers but far away from the 99 EUR I paid once several years ago.
Also it's a bit sad when language resources only offer one language and not 2-3+ with the subscription.

Instead I used Lingvist for 11 days (end of 2017), moved back to Memrise (Web), finished my Mondly PT tree and bought Busuu in November 2021.
The Busuu Android app UI was IMHO that good for Portuguese/English/French and I really liked the audio (no cartoon TTS character voices or comic animations) that I really used it on a daily basis.
Was worth the (discounted) money, but I probably should have continued with English Advanced C1 / Business English, B2/B1 reviews, Portuguese B1,...instead of starting with French there from scratch.

Pod101 Black Friday offering sounded good first that I managed to get two years, not only one year or six months or had to pay full price.
But never thought I would have such a hard time to make usage out of it or not knowing where to place my Portuguese knowledge and in what order to go through any available material.
There probably was a FAQ somewhere..

Next time I pay for something because I believe I found a good deal, I will make sure that I can reserve the required time to really play around with it and get started.
Couldn't make me use Mango actively in June (2020??) for free when it was offered for limited time because of Covid-19.
March is almost over, I'm busy with other personal stuff, and I hardly have touched my Mosalingua bundle subscription for the last four months.
At least it is a lifetime subscription and I'm not under any time pressure and nothing is lost.
Normally MosaSeries is only offered for six months or twelve months if you get the English bundle which contains two packages.
Will definitely try it out for French.

FurbyZeKat wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:55 pm

A last word on Assimil.
It's a great method...The e-method sucks because it follows the book logic but it is not as convenient as a book (you can't quickly browse previous pages, find personal notes and highlights).

I guess their French from English or Portuguese course won't be that much different then on the Android app.

Maybe I will just download the FREE audio files from Colloquial series from Routled for the two books for Brazilian Portuguese.
Sometimes they also have cheaper book deals but I have never seen one how it looks like.
No idea how good they are.


Like you, I'm more focused on the Android smartphone.

But I wish I would find another method which allows me to focus more on the PASSIVE side.
Audio-only is not enough.

I definitely find that the new Duolingo Web portal with word banks in English is a bit more self-destructive than helpful (I'm a quick ten finger typer).
Of course, Duolingo won't fit into a more PASSIVE learning process.
Too much clicking or correction of dictated answers from the Gboard and nonsense the Google Cloud engine sends back to the keyboard app (changing valid/detected text back to words which don't exist or reformulating the whole sentence).
I don't count overcorrected dictated texts as a relaxing learning environment, definitely not.
Many Gboard users complained.

Happy learning with Arabic and Turkish.
I wonder if I will ever manage to catch up with French on the same Portuguese language and push my PT knowledge towards the English side.

I'm astonished by your great English writing / formulating skills as a native French speaker.
Sometimes when I'm re-reading my English texts, some sentences feel very rough and not so smooth. Of course I very often have that feeling while I'm typing down the words and struggle how to put them together ;)
IMHO it's hardly possible to improve without a personal English teacher without going over posted texts one by one and correcting all the errors.

I'm really thankful that I can read the Latin words on the screen and can try my best to guess the reading and pronunciation of Portuguese and French words or how it shall sound when concatenated together.
With Arabic & others I would be totally lost.

:de: Native | :us: Upper-B2 (BritishCouncil) | ImageL25 (Duo) / A2 (6+y, McGraw-Hill) - Learning (Busuu): :fr: (A1 McGraw-Hill) | :brazil: (interm.)

Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

I started Busuu Arabic from the beginning level. Didn't try any placement tests.

User avatar
FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:00 pm

Twillight ... f.lux ... tampermonkey ... Chatterbug ...

Wow, you could write the "Survival guide to langage learning apps" :-)

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:00 pm

Wow! $1??
99 Euros / 24 months = 4,13 Euros

It's of course a 1 month premium subscription to test the course, afterwards the prices are pretty high.

I digged into the Arabic course, and I found a discrepency between web and app version, for instance vowelled scripts are missing in the App, which is very annoying. There are also unclear mix between standard Arabic and Morocan or Egyptian Arabics, which is very confusing. I also found some errors, which is bad at the beginning.

The course still seems good, but it is costly and these issues with the app are bothering me.

Conclusion : I'm fed up of these clumsy and costly Apps and poorly designed courses, I prefer Duo's style. I got back with my Assimil book and notebook, this has the advantage to force me doing written exercices, which is very good to learn Arabic script.

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:00 pm

Next time I pay for something because I believe I found a good deal, I will make sure that I can reserve the required time to really play around with it and get started.

Same for me :-)

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:00 pm

But I wish I would find another method which allows me to focus more on the PASSIVE side.

Did you check Drops?

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:00 pm

With Arabic & others I would be totally lost.

Did you try?

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:00 pm

I'm astonished by your great English writing / formulating skills as a native French speaker.

Thanks, that's kind, I'm better at writing in any language. I've read many good books, that helps.

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

User avatar
FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

JudieLC wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:22 pm

I started Busuu Arabic from the beginning level. Didn't try any placement tests.

Good luck!
I've done a spoken exercice, just saying "I'm fine, thank you, and you" in Arabic and I got 57 reviews! Support from the Arabic community is amazingly high!

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

FurbyZeKat wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:20 am
JudieLC wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:22 pm

I started Busuu Arabic from the beginning level. Didn't try any placement tests.

Good luck!
I've done a spoken exercice, just saying "I'm fine, thank you, and you" in Arabic and I got 57 reviews! Support from the Arabic community is amazingly high!

I've already given up using Busuu. I found the dialogues in which they have you fill in the word unproductive. I was usually able to get the right answers after a few tries, but I was frustrated that they don't teach you all the words in the dialogues and not much about sentence structure.

Right now I'm supplementing my Arabic learning on Duolingo with my daily free allotments of Mondly and Language Drops. I also signed up for Mango Languages Arabic; I was able to access Mango Languages for free using my municipal library card.

How do you like Arabic Pod? My son used it when he was first learning Arabic, and I tried it out, but I didn't stick with it.

I'd like to get to a point in Arabic where a page of Arabic text no longer looks like a wall of squiggles. I can identify individual words or even groups of words right now, but my mind just blanks out when I see paragraphs worth of Arabic text.

User avatar
FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

@JudieLC I've the same remarks on Busuu, it doesn't worth it.

I stopped using Arabic pod. The App version is flawed and mixes MSA and dialects. I've decided to take back my notebook and learn Arabic only once a day at best and keeping Duolingo for Turkish.

How is Mango?

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

FurbyZeKat wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:35 pm

@JudieLC I've the same remarks on Busuu, it doesn't worth it.

I stopped using Arabic pod. The App version is flawed and mixes MSA and dialects. I've decided to take back my notebook and learn Arabic only once a day at best and keeping Duolingo for Turkish.

How is Mango?

I like it so far. It explains the meaning of each word in a sentence. The lessons I've done so far also focus a lot on listening and speaking. They have you record yourself and compare your pronunciation with a native speaker.

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FurbyZeKat
Switzerland

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by FurbyZeKat »

JudieLC wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:57 am

I like it so far. It explains the meaning of each word in a sentence. The lessons I've done so far also focus a lot on listening and speaking. They have you record yourself and compare your pronunciation with a native speaker.

I'll have a try.

N French C1 English B2 German B1 Esperanto L Turkish

Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

FurbyZeKat wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:16 am
JudieLC wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:57 am

I like it so far. It explains the meaning of each word in a sentence. The lessons I've done so far also focus a lot on listening and speaking. They have you record yourself and compare your pronunciation with a native speaker.

I'll have a try.

Good luck. Note that I again started at the beginning level even though I know some Arabic, just because each online course covers the basics a bit differently, as far as I can tell. So I wanted to make sure I had the foundations.

I heard about Mango because my son is using it to learn Russian and he likes it. I looked at it and saw it costs (his employer is paying for it, so he's not paying anything). But then @Corinnebelle mentioned that I might be able to get it for free through my library. I looked into it and saw I can so I decided to try it. Don't know how widespread the program to provide Mango free through the library is. My library also has Rosetta Stone, but I haven't tried that.

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Corinnebelle

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Corinnebelle »

JudieLC wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:52 pm

I'd like to get to a point in Arabic where a page of Arabic text no longer looks like a wall of squiggles. I can identify individual words or even groups of words right now, but my mind just blanks out when I see paragraphs worth of Arabic text.

That's what I'm trying with the Hebrew. I think I'm past the blanks out, but only just!

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Deleted User 4833

Re: comments and observations on Busuu

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

Corinnebelle wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:59 pm
JudieLC wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:52 pm

I'd like to get to a point in Arabic where a page of Arabic text no longer looks like a wall of squiggles. I can identify individual words or even groups of words right now, but my mind just blanks out when I see paragraphs worth of Arabic text.

That's what I'm trying with the Hebrew. I think I'm past the blanks out, but only just!

I get that. I never had that problem with Hebrew, maybe because I grew up seeing Hebrew text in prayers and so forth. It wasn't till I lived in Israel for a while that I became more fluent in Hebrew. Now I can look at Hebrew text and immediately recognize the words. It's still more work for me to read Hebrew than English, though.

When I lived in Israel I used to regularly read the Israeli Hebrew news sources and listen to Israeli news programs on radio and TV, but I've become a bit too lazy to do that. :D
Though, honestly, my son increased his fluency in Arabic by reading Arabic news sources and listening to and/or watching Arabic news programs (Al Jazeera, for example).

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