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Sentence Discussion? No More!

We are not Duolingo, we cannot solve any problems directly, but we can provide community-based advice.


N1chope

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by N1chope »

rtqs-sandra wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:58 pm

@N1chope with Linux knowledge you're a perfect candidate and the tool once started just runs in the background for days.. you'll also find a thread on data quality topics with call for input, so @Basler Biker please add?

Thanks for the explanations! (also for clarifying through pm. Didn't reply because new users cannot)
I checked, and I have access to the threads now. Thanks, @Basler Biker !
I will check them out, and do the tests next. I also have a couple of system-specific questions or comments which I'll post there as well.
However,

rtqs-sandra wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:58 pm

@N1chope with Linux knowledge you're a perfect candidate

I'm a bit afraid that you may have overestimated me 😆. I'm mostly just a user, and I only use the CLI to turn on/off the vpn, to set shutdown timers, and to transfer stuff from/through my phone via scp on WiFi, to avoid messing up the timestamps. But you already tutorialized everything, so I guess I should be fine

N1chope

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by N1chope »

Corinnebelle wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:50 pm

@N1chope I also enjoy the fun element of the sentence discussions. Plus information about grammar, other translations or definitions of words used, they're roots etc..

Yay! I agree with all of those. I've seen that there is a dedicated thread about it in the group, so I guess that it will be more likely to be taken into consideration if we voice our views there as well. I won't be able to go deep into it today, but I'll try to come back over the weekend

(not sure if I'm wrong by "liking" the comments I agree with, since it's displayed as "thanking" them)

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JohnRiehl2
United States of America

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by JohnRiehl2 »

They're all gone for me as of this morning. Since Duolingo doesn't provide any general instruction on grammar, these were the only explanations I could get when I got an answer wrong.

dxtoeppe
Italy

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by dxtoeppe »

I have not read all the posts in this thread. Is A/B testing for no sentence discussions still on going? (I found a post on an 8/14 reddit discussion page) I got on DL to do a lesson today and can no longer access any of the SD. If I copy and paste a sentence into my search bar it goes to DL's snake and that's it. Now at the bottom of the sentence, in a lesson, it no longer has the option "Discuss." Hoping it's a glitch or that I am just being experimented on, but is this going to happen to all of us?

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Corinnebelle
Israel

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Corinnebelle »

@dxtoeppe The A/B testing is over and they have now removed sentences discussions so they are very hard to access now.

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JohnRiehl2
United States of America

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by JohnRiehl2 »

So disappointing. It's hard to understand how removing a feature that was already there benefits Duolingo. The only thing they've done is diminish the learning experience.

IVCdubU
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by IVCdubU »

Huge step backwards for teaching us how to speak a foreign language.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

Last option is using a search engine. For example:

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Corinnebelle
Israel

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Corinnebelle »

gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:38 am

Last option is using a search engine. For example:

But can you read them?

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Basler Biker
Switzerland

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Basler Biker »

Corinnebelle wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:44 am
gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:38 am

Last option is using a search engine. For example:

But can you read them?

no, they are all gone ...


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saliva
United States of America

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by saliva »

Kelikaku wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am

Looks as though there are no sentence discussions, at least the option on the drill screen is not visible:
Image

Edited by moderator: your word usage does not conform our terms and guidelines.
The Duome Team.

Last edited by Duome Team on Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: ...
User avatar
gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

Corinnebelle wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:44 am
gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:38 am

Last option is using a search engine. For example:

But can you read them?

I cannot say about others, but not the following one.

However, we are getting now links to the ones in here.

Regardless, once you have the id, you can use it to find it at hobune.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

However, when one thinks about this whole DLSD disappearing issue, what people will be missing are not the sentences but the comments, which are not always that valuable —and when they are, they tend to be buried among a large pile of straw— nor that accurate —there is a lot of misinformation —starting with DL's sentences themselves, as the sentence I chose for my example shows: it is not a grammatically correct sentence :roll:

This begs the question, are all those megas of text really that worthy? From my point of view they are given too much importance. I cannot deny that once in a while I could find interesting answers, but in all reality my time and effort provided a larger ROI (return of investment) by going straight to Google and checking each of the links, as this allowed me to start identifying the best authors or pages or YT channels that I could return to time after time, shortening my future search times and providing me with much more than just a straight-forward answer, that is, forgetting about DL forums allowed me to really start learning about a topic instead of just solving particular doubts.

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PtolemysXX
Uganda

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by PtolemysXX »

gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:20 am

what people will be missing are not the sentences but the comments,

I will be missing sentences too (including links to audio). Having ways to access sentences in an automated way gives an opportunity to create flash cards for offline use for example. One of the major drawbacks of Duolingo (my personal view) is the necessity of being online to do lessons and the total dependence on Duolingo's whims ("quick maintenance breaks" exactly at the time when I am commuting back home and would love to do a lesson) slow loading or server availability.

gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:20 am

This begs the question, are all those megas of text really that worthy? From my point of view they are given too much importance.

After a few weeks of porting some sentences to duome and manually editing them by hand to sieve trash away I am inclined to agree with you on that: I have overestimated the percentage of useful information. There is quite a lot of very helpful material in the sentence discussion but it requires a lot of manual labor to get that filtered. I wonder if any AI could do that.
On top of that, but that is a little different story, I realized that even though the sentence discussions are frozen for us - end users - on the server side the were being edited. I found it out by accident while trying to retrieve comments of a selected forum moderator whose remarks were always of finest and best quality. About two months ago I made a screenshot of a piece of a sentence discussion with his comments, the day before yesterday I tried to import the sentence discussion to duome - the sentence discussion was there but all posts of that moderator were gone without trace. I went a step further and googled duolingo + the moderator id: google produces many results from the cache I guess: clicking on them opened the right links but all posts from that moderator are plain gone. In my eyes it reduced drastically the ratio of useful comments in the sentence discussions.

JohnRiehl2
United States of America

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by JohnRiehl2 »

gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:20 am

However, when one thinks about this whole DLSD disappearing issue, what people will be missing are not the sentences but the comments, which are not always that valuable —and when they are, they tend to be buried among a large pile of straw— nor that accurate —there is a lot of misinformation —starting with DL's sentences themselves, as the sentence I chose for my example shows: it is not a grammatically correct sentence :roll:

They were better than nothing, especially to someone who's just starting out learning a language. Example: I'm learning Greek, which sometimes but not always allows for different word orderings. When DL marks me wrong on a sentence it shows me the right answer but gives me no insight into why or when that word ordering could be applied in other contexts. I'm now searching for another language app because I don't think I can learn just based on trying to guess the patterns from one-off examples.

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Basler Biker
Switzerland

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Basler Biker »

JohnRiehl2 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:15 am

... but (Duolngo) gives me no insight into why or when that word ordering could be applied in other contexts. I'm now searching for another language app because I don't think I can learn just based on trying to guess the patterns from one-off examples.

if you don't find anything right away, (but Clozemaster would be more what you are looking for - see my "evaluation, under construction" with the link below) , but yes ... else try talking to, and asking your questions to an AI system.

I have put several examples f a dialogue with chatGPT where I ask to validate or not a set of variants (other word order) for sentences all with a vey similar meaning (they "convey" similar messages)
here is the latest example I gave:
viewtopic.php?p=74924-ber-du-ikke-for-s ... ger#p74924

This is the link to out Clozemaster product specific forum
viewforum.php?f=490-clozemaster
the product has all required features for a student, but if it seems "free" to start with, the least extra button you touch it will prompt you for the PRO mode, but in my opinion this would really be worth the investment.

And this is a search for all on chatGPT already said and discussed here
search.php?keywords=chatGPT


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User avatar
gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

PtolemysXX wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:32 am
gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:20 am

what people will be missing are not the sentences but the comments,

I will be missing sentences too (including links to audio). Having ways to access sentences in an automated way gives an opportunity to create flash cards for offline use for example. One of the major drawbacks of Duolingo (my personal view) is the necessity of being online to do lessons and the total dependence on Duolingo's whims ("quick maintenance breaks" exactly at the time when I am commuting back home and would love to do a lesson) slow loading or server availability.

How can the sentences be missed if they are already in the lessons? Thus, they can be easily copied, just as some of us did before using the Duome script button. Here one can find many sentences copied by hand. That is something that is being done even now.

The rest, that is, what one does with the sentence, is another issue that is not intrinsically related to the sentence being in a DL forum. From my point of view, it would be infinitely easier to create whatever personal app from a sentence database than doing it from a webpage (DLSD).

In my case, for example, I created an Excel file with each word and then I entered many sentences linked to the word.

I don't know, I just don't see how they could be missed. It takes just a little effort to copy and paste, which in our learning endeavor is the activity that takes the least. If one thinks it even a little more, one could easily integrate a macro to the whole thing! :D

PtolemysXX wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:32 am
gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:20 am

This begs the question, are all those megas of text really that worthy? From my point of view they are given too much importance.

After a few weeks of porting some sentences to duome and manually editing them by hand to sieve trash away I am inclined to agree with you on that: I have overestimated the percentage of useful information. There is quite a lot of very helpful material in the sentence discussion but it requires a lot of manual labor to get that filtered. I wonder if any AI could do that.

Yes, exactly. And wouldn't you agree that one can find way more useful information at a webpage or a YT channel? Information that will provide us with answers and tips beyond a particular doubt linked to a particular sentence?

PtolemysXX wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:32 am

On top of that, but that is a little different story, I realized that even though the sentence discussions are frozen for us - end users - on the server side the were being edited. I found it out by accident while trying to retrieve comments of a selected forum moderator whose remarks were always of finest and best quality. About two months ago I made a screenshot of a piece of a sentence discussion with his comments, the day before yesterday I tried to import the sentence discussion to duome - the sentence discussion was there but all posts of that moderator were gone without trace. I went a step further and googled duolingo + the moderator id: google produces many results from the cache I guess: clicking on them opened the right links but all posts from that moderator are plain gone. In my eyes it reduced drastically the ratio of useful comments in the sentence discussions.

Wow! Could it be that the user her/himself deleted her/his comments? I mean, from the point of view of DL, that seems like a very targeted and specific action. And to what purpose?

What I noticed, and I recently commented about it, was that the comments were still there, but they all had been anonymized :o

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

JohnRiehl2 wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:15 am
gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:20 am

However, when one thinks about this whole DLSD disappearing issue, what people will be missing are not the sentences but the comments […]

They were better than nothing, especially to someone who's just starting out learning a language. Example: I'm learning Greek, which sometimes but not always allows for different word orderings. When DL marks me wrong on a sentence it shows me the right answer but gives me no insight into why or when that word ordering could be applied in other contexts.

Does the DL Sentence Discussion page always answer your doubts? The effort of going through a few comments, in the best of cases, hoping to find the required answer would be better invested in jumping right into a search engine and checking the different links listed ;)

I think that we all can agree on the fact that if we really want to learn a language beyond a basic level then one needs to have and use more tools than just DL :D

🦎  Non fui nata mostruosa: fui maledetta e per questo fui decapitata.  🦎
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JohnRiehl2
United States of America

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by JohnRiehl2 »

I can't speak for any other language than Greek, but I'd estimate 75% of the sentence discussions were value-added. And as for convenience, what could be more convenient than tapping a single button? I can definitively say that my learning experience is diminished.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

If it is of any consolation, this is nothing new, and not unexpected at all, since they have been eroding their system for years :|

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Deleted User 4833

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Deleted User 4833 »

Many of the sentence discussions were a waste of time, though there was sometimes useful insight added.

What I will miss is the audio, especially in Arabic. The Arabic lesson items do not always have audio and I would click on the sentence discussion to hear the sentence said back to me.

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PtolemysXX
Uganda

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by PtolemysXX »

gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:34 pm

Wow! Could it be that the user her/himself deleted her/his comments?

If that's the case then I respect it. But it is also a sign that it is very risky to post links to any duolingo URL's as their contents may change without notice. They may actually play the game to render the remaining good sentence discussions ridiculous just to prove their point of discussions being useless.

gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:34 pm

What I noticed, and I recently commented about it, was that the comments were still there, but they all had been anonymized :o

This update has not reached me yet :D

Last edited by PtolemysXX on Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

JudieLC wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:44 pm

Many of the sentence discussions were a waste of time, though there was sometimes useful insight added.

What I will miss is the audio, especially in Arabic. The Arabic lesson items do not always have audio and I would click on the sentence discussion to hear the sentence said back to me.

Yes, the audio files. Well, in the meantime, while the DLSD Backing-up project is finished, we will need to find some options. There's a site where native people create audios from requested sentences, and I'm sure there must be some where a synthesized natural (non-robotic) voice can read pasted sentences. Even here, I learned from @PtolemysXX about a tag that can be used to generate the audio from a sentence. I think it uses some Google technology, but it works only on some browsers.

Well, with all this I just want to remark that there are some options out there ;)

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by gmads »

PtolemysXX wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:37 pm
gmads wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:34 pm

What I noticed, and I recently commented about it, was that the comments were still there, but they all had been anonymized :o

This update has not reached me yet :D

It was a few days ago, but it doesn't matter now, it's gone now along with all the other ones:

The only thing now is to refer to the hobune archive (it uses the same id):

🦎  Non fui nata mostruosa: fui maledetta e per questo fui decapitata.  🦎
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dxtoeppe
Italy

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by dxtoeppe »

Have not been paying a whole lot of attention until now, but is there a thread on here discussing hobune stream? How do I find the comment #? Or maybe it is no longer possible to find the number? I am studying Italian. I previously used SD for word order guidelines when making a sentence (especially asking questions) and the nuances in choosing one word over another (gente/persone/popolo and parete/muro for example). Is there an online tool that teaches this sort of thing? I have no money, so subscriptions, even in limited number, is not an option for me. Thanks.

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Basler Biker
Switzerland

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Basler Biker »

dxtoeppe wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:49 pm

Have not been paying a whole lot of attention until now, but is there a thread on here discussing hobune stream? How do I find the comment #? Or maybe it is no longer possible to find the number? I am studying Italian. I previously used SD for word order guidelines when making a sentence (especially asking questions) and the nuances in choosing one word over another (gente/persone/popolo and parete/muro for example). Is there an online tool that teaches this sort of thing? I have no money, so subscriptions, even in limited number, is not an option for me. Thanks.

yes there are - install the free chatGPT extension for your google chrome browser.
talk to chatGPT as you would do to your teacher:

here is an example (I took your example) - i don't speak italian, so i couldn't check the answer, but I am sure you will be able to.

me:
can you give me some sample sentences, in italian, using the words gente/persone/popolo, in a context where they are not mutually exchangable. 3 sentences for each word. Explain the nuances in meaning, and explain also why another word of the three would not be suitable.

ChatGPT

Certainly! In Italian, the words "gente," "persone," and "popolo" can have distinct nuances in meaning, and they are not always interchangeable. Here are three sample sentences for each word, along with explanations of their nuances:

1. Gente:

a. La gente del paese è molto cordiale.

  • Meaning: "The people in the village are very friendly."
  • Explanation: "Gente" refers to a group of people in a general sense. It doesn't specify a particular community or identity; it's a broader term.

b. La gente preferisce i ristoranti italiani.

  • Meaning: "People prefer Italian restaurants."
  • Explanation: "Gente" here is used to talk about people in a general or unspecified sense. It's not referring to a specific group or population.

c. C'era molta gente al concerto ieri sera.

  • Meaning: "There were a lot of people at the concert last night."
  • Explanation: "Gente" is used here to indicate a crowd or a gathering of individuals without specifying who they are.

2. Persone:

a. Le persone anziane meritano rispetto.

  • Meaning: "Elderly people deserve respect."
  • Explanation: "Persone" specifically refers to individuals or persons. It emphasizes the individuality of each person.

b. Le persone con disabilità necessitano di sostegno.

  • Meaning: "People with disabilities need support."
  • Explanation: "Persone" is used to highlight the human aspect of individuals with disabilities, emphasizing their individual needs and experiences.

c. Le persone che lavorano qui sono molto competenti.

  • Meaning: "The people who work here are very competent."
  • Explanation: "Persone" is employed to describe the individuals who work at a particular place, emphasizing their roles and skills.

3. Popolo:

a. Il popolo italiano ha una ricca storia culturale.

  • Meaning: "The Italian people have a rich cultural history."
  • Explanation: "Popolo" often refers to a specific ethnic or national group, highlighting their shared identity and culture.

b. Il popolo si è ribellato contro l'oppressione.

  • Meaning: "The people rose up against oppression."
  • Explanation: "Popolo" can also be used to describe a collective, often in a political or historical context, emphasizing their unity in a common cause.

c. Il popolo ama le tradizioni locali.

  • Meaning: "The people love local traditions."
  • Explanation: "Popolo" here refers to the community or inhabitants of a specific region, emphasizing their shared customs and preferences.

In summary, "gente" is a more general term for people, "persone" emphasizes individuality, and "popolo" often refers to a specific group, community, or nation with shared characteristics or identity. Using the right word depends on the context and the intended nuance.

me:
I forgot to say: it should be 3 examples of questions, for each of these 3 words

ChatGPT

Certainly! Here are three sample questions for each of the three words "gente," "persone," and "popolo," along with explanations of their nuances:

1. Gente:

a. Quanta gente c'era alla festa ieri sera?

  • Meaning: "How many people were at the party last night?"
  • Explanation: "Gente" is used here to inquire about the number of attendees at a specific event without specifying their identities.

b. Hai mai viaggiato in un paese dove la gente parla una lingua diversa dalla tua?

  • Meaning: "Have you ever traveled to a country where people speak a different language than yours?"
  • Explanation: "Gente" is used to refer to people in a general sense, without specifying any particular individuals.

c. La gente preferisce fare shopping nei negozi fisici o online?

  • Meaning: "Do people prefer shopping in physical stores or online?"
  • Explanation: "Gente" is employed to discuss people's general shopping preferences without specifying a particular group.

2. Persone:

a. Quali persone ti hanno ispirato nella tua carriera?

  • Meaning: "Which people have inspired you in your career?"
  • Explanation: "Persone" is used to ask about specific individuals who have had a personal impact or influence.

b. Hai conosciuto delle persone interessanti durante il viaggio?

  • Meaning: "Did you meet any interesting people during the trip?"
  • Explanation: "Persone" is used to inquire about specific individuals met during the journey.

c. Quali persone saranno presenti alla riunione di domani?

  • Meaning: "Which people will be present at the meeting tomorrow?"
  • Explanation: "Persone" is used to inquire about the specific attendees of a meeting.

3. Popolo:

a. Come il popolo sta reagendo alle nuove politiche del governo?

  • Meaning: "How is the population reacting to the government's new policies?"
  • Explanation: "Popolo" is used here to refer to the broader population or citizens of a nation, emphasizing their collective response.

b. Quali sono le tradizioni culinarie del popolo giapponese?

  • Meaning: "What are the culinary traditions of the Japanese people?"
  • Explanation: "Popolo" is used to discuss the shared traditions and customs of a specific cultural or national group.

c. Come il popolo ha contribuito alla crescita economica del paese?

  • Meaning: "How has the population contributed to the economic growth of the country?"
  • Explanation: "Popolo" is used to emphasize the collective role and actions of the citizens in the country's economic development.

In summary, these sample questions reflect the nuances in meaning of the words "gente," "persone," and "popolo" when used in various contexts to inquire about people, individuals, or specific population groups.[/i]

BB


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User avatar
Basler Biker
Switzerland

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Basler Biker »

dxtoeppe wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:49 pm

Have not been paying a whole lot of attention until now, but is there a thread on here discussing hobune stream? How do I find the comment #?

yes you can:
the hobune stream was first announced here, by the maker @hobune.stream
search.php?author_id=1355&sr=posts

if you have the sentence for which you want to find the discussion, then

  1. do a google search for that, and include this " site:forum.duolingo.com "
  2. If one of the results poins to the duolingo forum, copy the URL.
  3. Take the number at the end of the uRL => that is the DL sentence ID

Use this ID in the hobune stream URL.

BB


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Helge.

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Helge. »

Basler Biker wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:16 pm
  1. do a google search for that, and include this " site:forum.duolingo.com "

But that doesn't work anymore.

learn vocab with/against me on Drops https://invite.languagedrops.com/ZApJ6kbeBuB3kvVy6 lerne Vokabeln mit mir oder gegen mich

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PtolemysXX
Uganda

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by PtolemysXX »

Helge. wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:43 am
Basler Biker wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:16 pm
  1. do a google search for that, and include this " site:forum.duolingo.com "

But that doesn't work anymore.

Use some other search engine, not Google. Google has cleared the Duolingo cache. Have a look here.

Helge.

Re: Sentence Discussion? No More!

Post by Helge. »

PtolemysXX wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:48 pm

Use some other search engine, not Google. Google has cleared the Duolingo cache. Have a look here.

And in a month it's gone in all search engines. This is not a solution, but only a temporary workaround.

learn vocab with/against me on Drops https://invite.languagedrops.com/ZApJ6kbeBuB3kvVy6 lerne Vokabeln mit mir oder gegen mich

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