24-7 on the snake

[Saperlipopette!]

The two grammar skills for Articles are 23-7 and 24-7 on the snake. The thing is, I can't find 24-7 on the snake on the app. Here's the screenshots. It oughta be right below that chest on the app.

I think it's the 204 unit French tree. Using the app on an Android.

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[GrahamW]

@Saperlipopette I checked my app, and when I look closely, the purple Level Up sign moves up and down slightly, and I for the briefest moment I can see the very slight tip of the 24-7 skill that is hidden underneath it. Not enough to be able to click on it. But why should Duo care about you being able to click on the skill you when when you can watch Eddy skipping instead. Or just scroll up and watch him spin a basketball instead of getting frustrated about wanting to practice a skill. Priorities, eh? You can see what Duo cares about. They're gonna stick with the snake, but a little more careful presentation would improve it. Just have the Level Up sign lower onto the Trophy 24 symbol. Or offset successive skills horizontally a little more. Duo needs to employ more Graphic Learning Scientists.

[PtolemysXX]

I thought this thread was about spending 24/7 on the snake. A dreadful thought... Sleep is important.

[gmads]

But why should Duo care about you being able to click on the skill you when when you can watch Eddy skipping instead.

Some hidden unknown reason they must have to stamp on us their useless animations! Why are they that important to them?

We have all suffered the impositions of others like FB, YT etc but not being enough DL takes the hypocritical approach of making users believe they can actually stop them by changing a setting, only to discover that once you logout and login the setting has been reset to what it wants: animations enabled.

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*** Deleted content ***
Whoever saw it saw it, whoever didn't see it…

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  ㆍenglish ㆍdebate ㆍduolingo

[dakanga]

Just to mention, normalization of torture is something that never sits comfortably by me.

I do hear the intention behind this is to vent, and not a call to action.
Yet - it is strange how powerful our words are. How humans, starting with thoughts, sharing ideas through communications, and then with our actions - all the things we have done.

Duolingo in the days of its forums supported free speech - more along the American model of free speech. Where it advised its moderators to not take down posts that were negative to Duolingo.
It also promoted "Evil Duolingo",

Evil Duolingo Owl is a series of parodies of the mascot for the language learning application Duolingo. In these memes, Duo, the Duolingo owl, is a dangerous teacher, who threatens users when they do not use the application.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/evil-duolingo-owl

Yet - Duolingo's mission remains

ref: https://www.duolingo.com/info
https://blog.duolingo.com/duolingos-val ... m-the-ceo/

• Personalized education ; making learning fun ; Universally accessible

While, like so many others, I also am frustrated by so many of the decisions it makes, I still find the resources it provides a useful adjunct to language learning. And also find its mission goals are still very much an ongoing objective. I see it can continue to do much better than where it is at now.

This also reminds me of the Aesop story of the man taking a donkey to market to sell. Which for me tells me - Try to please everyone, and you will please no one. For you can not please everyone.
To me though - this is not an excuse to not strive to do the best you can with your abilies.
I am thankful that Duolingo is still striving to maintain and improve its products. Though I am sad due at quite a number of the decisions it has made.
Yet glad that it is still in business. It is a useful resource for language learning.
Though it is always best to use many resources.

Thanks for these reflections your edgy post has given me @gmads .

[Saperlipopette!]

All I wanted for others to see if they have the second iteration of the articles grammar skill. It could be just a bug on duo for app on Android. I see it on the web and on desktop view. I don't have apples or ipads or ipods to check if it's there. I'm sure they'll fix it but I think they're mad at me.

[dakanga]

No, they will not be mad at you.
In the all, and the little, I know of Duolingo, they would not get mad at you @Saperlipopette! !

However, they have this way of rolling changes out, including in blind trials - they call A/B tests.
They have always had hundreds of "A/B trials" happening at any one time.
Where they test out tweaks of changes and then sit back and wait to see what the data tells them, in their way of analyising things and making choices on which tweeks will be allowed to go ahead.
They very much rely on waiting for data to be returned to make decisions. And can be very patient at times in waiting until they get a clear indication on whatever their metrics for analysis are.

Sometimes, when I get time, I also check out https://research.duolingo.com/
It has some good reading in it.

Then there is the "for public consumption" extra information Duolingo provides at : https://blog.duolingo.com/

Another resource worth watching is https://www.reddit.com/r/duolingo/ , along with this discussion :

Anyway, the short of it - is something will change and the course under you will change - usually without notice. It is the way Duolingo does things.

[gmads]

• Just to mention, normalization of torture is something that never sits comfortably by me.
  → I hear you. I do agree on the general concept, but I also recognize or accept that these are never clear-cut topics, an all white vs. an all black battle. Morale, as we know, is pretty fluid and subject to many factors.
  → The language or form may seem too strong, but isn't that what they are actually doing to maybe hundreds of persons around the world, people that are sensitive to animations, who are prone to epileptic seizures with that kind of visuals? As I once expressed in the DL forums, one error on their part is not just one error, is one that continuously costs us all time, discomfort, frustration, etc.
  → Regarding normalization —independently of the underlying subject— there's not much one can actually do to stop it (as current times have come to prove).

• I do hear the intention behind this is to vent, and not a call to action.
  → Right on target! Anyway, if I had the power and the means, I would definitely go after truly critical concepts, instead of wasting resources on trivial matters.
  → In all truth, this is just venting as you said. At the end of the road, nothing will change.

• Yet - it is strange how powerful our words are.
  → Yes, the pen is mightier than the sword.

• How humans, starting with thoughts, sharing ideas through communications, and then with our actions - all the things we have done.
  → Yes, everything always starts as a thought.

• Duolingo in the days of its forums supported free speech - more along the American model of free speech. Where it advised its moderators to not take down posts that were negative to Duolingo.
  → One point in favor of DL forums vs. DM forums.

• It also promoted "Evil Duolingo",

  Evil Duolingo Owl is a series of parodies of the mascot for the language learning application Duolingo. In these memes, Duo, the Duolingo owl, is a dangerous teacher, who threatens users when they do not use the application.

  → Let's hope they also promoted/allowed images of the green owl being cut in pieces

• Yet - Duolingo's mission remains - Personalized education ; making learning fun ; Universally accessible
  → I would really beg to differ on this one. From my point of view, that is just a advertising slogan that, as almost all of their kind, is just a mirage.

• While, like so many others, I also am frustrated by so many of the decisions it makes, I still find the resources it provides a useful adjunct to language learning.
  → Indeed, which just proves that good characteristics and bad ones can coexist. Complaining about a fact that really is beyond trivial, doesn't take away the fact that there also exist a few positive aspects. My problem here is that the "price" that users have to "pay" to be able to access and make use of this so-called "free learning" has long tended to become untenable by the day.

• And also find its mission goals are still very much an ongoing objective. I see it can continue to do much better than where it is at now.
  → Once again, I do disagree on the first point, but I definitely concord with you on the second one: ironically, to improve they would need to go backwards!

• This also reminds me of the Aesop story of the man taking a donkey to market to sell. Which for me tells me - Try to please everyone, and you will please no one. For you can not please everyone.
  → One of the greatest truths, indeed. That's why each one must always be true to her/his own nature, regardless of anyone else's opinion.

• To me though - this is not an excuse to not strive to do the best you can with your abilies.
  → Exactly. However, I believe I am not alone in thinking they are not doing that, at least regarding the core, that is, the sentence pairs.

• Thanks for these reflections your edgy post has given me @gmads .
  → You are more than welcome.

[dakanga]

Awwww gmads !

What a great response !

You do know I hold you in great respect and greatly appreciate your valued engagement in this community. Bear in mind, I am just one voice here. One voice of equal rate to your valid and valuable voice. Though I also humbly work in a team of people to help keep this forum afloat. I am thankful for those that have enabled this forum to exist - especially after the demise of the great resource of the forums by Duolingo. I will probably always grieve the loss of those forums, and the now death for access that Duolingo choose to do - that now we can not even access the history from them.

To point, even this morning, re this post , where I discovered we as a community did not have sufficient time to archive posts such as https://www.duolingo.com/comment/10093059 on https://archive.md/. What a sensless loss.

Just to pull on one thread though re the comment on the old Duolingo forums "Where it advised its moderators to not take down posts that were negative to Duolingo."
And hinting that in this forum here posts that are negative to Duolingo are taken down. I hope this is not the case. And this is NOT part of our governing rules as the duome community. And I will start a new discussion in another place to talk about this issue. I just need to give it a bit more thought first. And also - to do some of my research. This will not be today.

To read about the Terms of use for us, check out : ucp.php?mode=terms
To understand some of our very rough advice guidelines : viewtopic.php?t=4485-we-re-all-in-this-together

This issue you raise is a very important one - but one that should be had on a different discussion thread. Including not burried in a sub forum for French for English speakers.

I wish it known here by those reading this, that it IS okay to discuss things that are negative to Duolingo in these forums. And it is done so through many discussions throughout these forums.

I also commend people who do so, those who discuss issues.

edited - added : to note, we who are part of helping to keep this forum up are volunteers. People who give of their time for the benefit of us as a wider community. We are not employed by Duolingo. We do not represent Duolingo.

However attacking a single person, or a group identity that forms part of a persons identity - that is not permitted. ie to put down Muslims, Christians, LGBTQ+ community, etc. It is very important to always be respectful of others.

And it is also being able to talk about this issue, that is also why I am thankful to your comments.

edited - added : please note - I am not "DM". I am one person in this community of Duome.

Together we form this community.

Insieme

[gmads]

Awwww gmads !

What a great response !

I heartily appreciate your comment.

You do know I hold you in great respect and greatly appreciate your valued engagement in this community. Bear in mind, I am just one voice here. One voice of equal rate to your valid and valuable voice.

No, I wasn't aware, but I'm grateful once again for your kind words.

How valued? That I wouldn't know. Some may value it, others may not, but that's how it always is So, for better of for worse, one just does what is one's nature to do.

Yes, I'd say that we all agree that everyone's voice and opinion is valuable: “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” —Evelyn Beatrice Hall.

Though I also humbly work in a team of people to help keep this forum afloat.

I guess, now that I see that you are a global moderator, that you are more aware of how I've tended to participate in here, than the other way round.

Yes, we all play a role in here, and each one helps and participates in some way or another. Depending on each own's point of view, some contributions may be worthless, and others may be priceless, but in the end, they are all here for whoever wants to take advantage of them.

To point, even this morning, re this post , where I discovered we as a community did not have sufficient time to archive posts such as https://www.duolingo.com/comment/10093059 on https://archive.md/. What a sensless loss.

I'm not sure I get the reason for this reference, but yes, I'd say that's exactly the essence of life on the Internet (and even beyond): ephemeral, insubstantial.

Just to pull on one thread though re the comment on the old Duolingo forums "Where it advised its moderators to not take down posts that were negative to Duolingo."
And hinting that in this forum here posts that are negative to Duolingo are taken down. I hope this is not the case. And this is NOT part of our governing rules as the duome community. And I will start a new discussion in another place to talk about this issue. I just need to give it a bit more thought first. And also - to do some of my research. This will not be today.

My bad, and I apologize for not having been sufficiently explicit in my comment. I should have made clear that I was not referring to the censorship of negative comments about DL, but about the censoring itself. Different topics, indeed.

If it came as a hint, well, that was basically because it was simply a comment about something that I had no interest in going further. I'm not known for being a "hinting" person… as proven by the post that motivated the ongoing discussion, along with many other of my posts

To read about the Terms of use for us, check out : ucp.php?mode=terms
To understand some of our very rough advice guidelines : viewtopic.php?t=4485-we-re-all-in-this-together

I'd never seen them before, but I'm no stranger to the concept. I've also been on your side of the fence, the all-seeing eye in the sky… the maker of rules. I've been there.

This issue you raise is a very important one - but one that should be had on a different discussion thread. Including not burried in a sub forum for French for English speakers.

Yes, I do think that the topic is beyond important, and one that the whole DL user base should have responded to, that is, the utterly lack of respect from DL towards its users. Yes, I know, I better take a seat, but sincerely, beyond mine being a very emphatic supportive reaction to the comment about the animations, from my part at least, I do not actually see any worth in discussing it further, of course, unless someone here has a seat and a voice of weight on the council of DL and can actually do something about them.

I wish it known here by those reading this, that it IS okay to discuss things that are negative to Duolingo in these forums. And it is done so through many discussions throughout these forums.

I also commend people who do so, those who discuss issues.

edited - added : to note, we who are part of helping to keep this forum up are volunteers. People who give of their time for the benefit of us as a wider community. We are not employed by Duolingo. We do not represent Duolingo.

However attacking a single person, or a group identity that forms part of a persons identity - that is not permitted. ie to put down Muslims, Christians, LGBTQ+ community, etc. It is very important to always be respectful of others.

And it is also being able to talk about this issue, that is also why I am thankful to your comments.

I do tend to be quite emphatic regarding abusive attitudes and actions of those in power —more in real life that on the Internet—, but yes, I shouldn't have gone after a single person, even if such person should have the criteria to completely recognize and be aware that his company has crossed a line it shouldn't have crossed.

Please do erase the post.

edited - added : please note - I am not "DM". I am one person in this community of Duome.

Hm, I reread all my answers and at no time I think I ever said that you were DM. As a matter of fact, I only used the DM (DuoMe) acronym once, and the DL (DuoLingo) one twice, in what I thought them to be, very very clear contexts:

1. As I once expressed in the DL forums,
2. One point in favor of DL forums vs. DM forums.

But I apologize if it seemed that I was naming you "DM." I was not.

… I was about to click the Submit button, when it occurred to me that maybe you are the owner of this duome.eu site, and hence your clarification. If that were the case, how could I ever have known that? Who is the owner of the site? I really don't know

[dakanga]

ahhh - as always - and as often I do not comment also .....

You are an AMAZING person @gmads !

But I am not the "overseeing eye" you might imagine.

Yet, I am a humble small part of a team, that also help to make this forum. Please note - a very small part.
And not even aware of many of the issues you raise ... such as really understanding how this site is able to be in existance.

Though I continue to hope from the tips of whiskers to the tip of my tail that it will continue to be in existence.

I am ever so thankful that this forum is.

And that it has been able to save at least some of .... to quote a recent acronym to me ... the rud (Random Unexpected Distruction) of the previous Duolingo maintained forums.
(Somehow RUD gives me giggles .... as as acronym to describe a huge explosion shortly after launch .... )

To whit - do you not have the power to edit the post you made above ?

Please, do let me know if you have control for editing of your own post above.
I am fascinated to find out.
And should you not have that power - that is a discussion I would also like to have.

Sorry for being so dumb I do not know the reality of this issue from your point of view.

edited: added: except for this valued post : viewtopic.php?t=1-welcome-to-duome-forums

[gmads]

ahhh - as always - and as often I do not comment also .....

You are an AMAZING person @gmads !

But I am not the "overseeing eye" you might imagine.

Yet, I am a humble small part of a team, that also help to make this forum. Please note - a very small part.
And not even aware of many of the issues you raise ... such as really understanding how this site is able to be existance.

Though I continue to hope from the tips of whiskers to the tip of tail that it will continue to be in existence.

I am ever so thankful that this forum is.

And that it has been able to save at least some of .... to quote a recent acronym to me ... the rud (Random Unexpected Distruction) of the previous Duolingo maintained forums.
(Somehow RUD gives me giggles .... as as acronym to describe a huge explosion shortly after launch .... )

To whit - do you not have the power to edit the post you made above ?

Please, do let me know if you have control for editing of your own post above.
I am fascinated to find out.
And should you not have that power - that is discussion I would also like to have.

Thanks again, but are giving me more credit that deserved

Yes, I can edit it, but not delete it. I will edit it then.

Sorry for being so dumb I do not know the reality of this issue from your point of view.

No, no, no. Please don't ever say that

Being this a place where anonymity rules, how can anyone know about anyone else. Of course, some usernames may be more anonymous that others

[dakanga]

Your credit, and the respect I hold for you @gmads , it is well earned and deserved by you.

I continue to look forward to your future engagement and contribution, and including the building of resources you are also part of, for this community.
For the benefit of others, and even for ourselves.

insieme

[gmads]

Your credit, and the respect I hold for you @gmads , it is well earned and deserved by you.

I continue to look forward to your future engagement and contribution, and including the building of resources you are also part of, for this community.
For the benefit of others, and even for ourselves.

insieme

I'm sure there will be many more opportunities, and for better reasons than the current one, to interact

Many of my posts take me a lot of research time to prepare, so yes, in the hope that they will be useful to others, I end up learning quite a bit

while-we-teach-we-learn.png (466.77 KiB) Viewed 1513 times

[GrahamW]

All I wanted for others to see if they have the second iteration of the articles grammar skill. It could be just a bug on duo for app on Android.

On Android, there isn't a bug in the content but rather a bug in the display of the content. Item 24-7 is there, but completely hidden most of time by the purple Level Up symbol, except when that symbol moves slightly downwards. This screenshot shows the upper edge of item 24-7 on the snake. Good luck if you can click on it! Don't hold your breath on Duo providing a fix to the graphics!

Screenshot_2023-04-22-16-59-07-942.jpg (380.34 KiB) Viewed 1462 times

EDIT: This screenshot was taken on my Android phone. However, I've just noticed that on my Android tablet, the animations aren't active, so the purple Level Up symbol completely covers skill 24-7. all the time. I've checked to see if I have different options set for the animations on the two devices, but I can see no difference. So I've no idea why animations are active on my phone but not on the tablet. Either way, the graphics presentation by Duolingo is absolutely terrible.

[Saperlipopette!]

Today on the app the snake was broken into Eight sections. Eight smaller snakes. This would have been a great opportunity to fix the bug I was talking about in this thread but it didn't happen.

[GrahamW]

Today on the app the snake was broken into Eight sections. Eight smaller snakes.

Yes, and instead of Unit 24 remaining as Unit 24, it's now Unit 15 in Section 2. This makes it all the more difficult to see how many Units one has completed in total, or to reference a specific Unit if one has made a note of the Unit number.
Not to mention affecting all the good work that folks like MatOzone did in documenting (in most/all of the languages) what the Unit contents were, since the Unit numbers have been renumbered
Maintaining continuity with existing information has never been Duo's strong point
I wonder if any of the Duo staff are studying courses and then blindly have the rug shaken under them when Duo makes changes.
Edit: But at least Duo hasn't broken Eddy skipping!

[Saperlipopette!]

The renumbering isn't half bad. It's close to dakanga's system.

Rookie	9
Explorer	17	26
Traveler	16	42
T-blazer	35	77
Adventure	42	119
Discoverer	37	156
DDevil	12	168
Champion	31	199

If you're on lesson 23 in discoverer you just add the offset, 119+23=142.

If you have the old numbers you subtract. Unit 109. 109-77=32. That's 5-32 in adventurer.

I'd like them to them to break the four sections of thirty or more units in half & then fix & bring the checkpoint quizzes back.

Back to 199 units.

[Saperlipopette!]

Well, they've done something with this issue in typical Duolingo fashion ... meaning they fucked it up worse.

This the skill 2.15-7 on the app. I still can't do it. It's blocked by the purple shit. I suppose someone who took this skill to legendary might not have the purple shit in the way. This isn't a change, this was the initial problem.

On the web, when I click on the circle for 24-7, I get the box Use articles like you're supposed to. When I click on +5 XP to start the lesson, I got thrown to the top of the snake. So now I can't do the lesson on the web either.

I suppose someone else can check too, to see if that's happening across the board. If you don't feel like doing the lesson you can check on the x to quit the lesson. I don't think you'll get to that point, though, I think you'll get thrown out to the top of the snake like me.

[MoniqueMaRie]

2.15-7 is the story "junior gets vaccinated" isn't it? On the tablet the circle is not completely covered by the violet "level up" sign. I can carefully tap it with my pinkie and start the story.

[Saperlipopette!]

Thank you for checking.

Junior gets vaccinated is 6.15-8, i.e. The 15th from the top in the Discovery (6th) section. It is Unit 134-8 on the web. It has the woman shining the bike. She is shining the bike because Dans Paris, a vélo on depasse les autos. Joe Dassin said so. That story is as you described it, partially obstructed but clickable.

To get to 24-7, you will see section 6 in bright red at the top of the screen. When you click on it, it will bring a full screen for unit 6. You can swipe right to section 5,4, 3, and 2. 2 is the one that I am talking about. When you hit review you go to unit 1 and need to scroll down 15 units for the lesson in question.

Unit 24-7 is in section 2 Explorer on the app. Go to unit 15, the guy skipping rope. For me lesson 7 is totally obstructed by the purple shit. It's below a chest and above the unit test for unit 2.15. If you go to 24-7 on the web, you see the guy skipping rope. It is here where I would like someone to check by acting like you were going to do the lesson. You will see the tab below the treasure chest and above the unit test that's obstructed, fully eclipsed, on the app.

A slight bummer is that grammar lessons, which normally net you 15 XP on the app, are worth only ten on the web. But I don't think you'll be able to do the lesson because I can't

[Saperlipopette!]

I had enough and did the eight legendary lessons. Ran the table, too. Purple shit is gone and now I can do the grammar lesson. See exhibit B. Yippee.

That's the workaround-- if the lesson is obscured by the prompt to do the legendary lessons, then do them.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

[Saperlipopette!]

The reason why this skill (2.22 Articles, units 23 & 24) is important to me is because I use strength percentages. Only one skill has a lower percentage & that's because I just started working on it. Reflexives 2 is the only other skill on my list of the lowest twelve percentages below unit 100.

I have to practice the 26 grammar skills on the snake because hearts lessons don't give you grammar lessons. As long as I find a workable system with the grammar skills & do enough hearts practices, Duo takes care of the rest. There's a few minor issues that I have to figure out with Duome, but I get spaced repetition practice on everything else. It's a way better system than the three cracked skulls a day system, which practices all the 200 skills in the French tree about once every two months if you do the math.

Articles is such an easy skill too. For verbs of preference use the definitive article and for others use the partitive. It's a recap of the skill 2.17 Breakfast. Most of the lessons that I do I get 100%. That's the only skill for now that I'm having trouble getting the strength percentage up to snuff.

[Thomas.Heiss]

That's the workaround-- if thegrammar lesson is obscured by the prompt to do the legendary lessons, then do them.

You can't manually enter the direct URL address of that path level (grammar lesson #xx) on the Web, like by counting the levels?

If not maybe you're using the browser addon/extension "uBlock Origin".
It will allow you to temporarily remove specific html / div elements on the screen, like the Legendary level up trohpy button by using cosmetic filters. It is the first lightning symbol, not the pipette (permanent remover).
Also it might work to manually change the html code and adjust the CSS div size elements or enter a newline (Firefox developer tools) by inspecting the html code.

Of course only makes sense if there is an actual grammar lesson / path level with a circle which is hidden at a lower layer.

[Saperlipopette!]

Well, the thing with that backdoor solution is the bug is different on the web. On the web I can see the link for the grammar lesson for 24-7. The problem is, if I click on it, it throws me to the top of the tree.

Anyway, I did what you said. I clicked in the link for 24-4, and discovered it sent me here:

https://www.duolingo.com/lesson/unit/24/level/5

which means that I replace the five with an 8, and try that. Well, my manually created link for 24-7 has the same problem as clicking on the link on the website, I get thrown to the top of the tree on the web. So no, that's no good.

In case anyone's looking at the details, you'll see the link that I tried to access 24-7 is actually 24-8 when you type in the html address. But I'm going by dakanga's convention, and her notes for Unit 24 call that link 24-7. The difference is 24-3 is a treasure chest and she doesn't count treasure chests.

I read your second solution, to install an extension and I guess run the app under the extension. Or to manually change the html code. Thanks for suggesting it, but I only go for the simple stuff. I'm not going to rewrite Duo's html code to fix a bug that they won't bother fixing. Nor am I going to install an extension on my phone with really specific uses. In terms of time, installing an extension and figuring out how to use it would take me at least an hour. It took me an hour to bang out the legendary lessons and fix the problem my way.

[Saperlipopette!]

Duolingo fixed this problem by making it legendary for each individual rattle on the snake so there's no more ostentatious purple legendary banner for the unit at the bottom. Also you can now do the grammar lessons in the web again. Yippee.