khajit wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 11:39 am
Frau and Fraulein in German is a similar situation. Fraulein is offensive, one of the reasons it's offensive and no longer used is the exact reverse situation as ma'am.
Well, that's not as simple as it seems to you. As a native I can tell you. "Fräulein" is the diminutive form of "Frau". It was used to distinguish unmarried to married women. It's true that in the 70s some people had the impression it would mean disrespect because of the insinuation of being "too young to know" or even "not young anymore, but has no man: seems to be strange", and the pendant would be "Herrlein", but doesn't exist. But that was not the majority, although a lot.
On the contrary: "This process was somewhat problematic, at least during the 1970s to 1980s, since many unmarried women of the older generation insisted on Fräulein as a term of distinction, respecting their status, and took the address of Frau as offensive or suggestive of extra-marital sexual experience." (wiki)
"In 2008, the Allensbach Institute for Public Opinion Research surveyed Germans on their acceptance of so-called "taboo words," including Fräulein. 47 % of those surveyed said they used Fräulein themselves. 44% said they did not use it, but were not bothered by it either. Only 7% found its use disturbing or repulsive." (wiki)
"In some cases it is still used: The word "Fräulein" has sometimes survived as a form of address for a waitress, but even this usage - like its male counterpart "Herr Ober!" - is becoming rarer in Germany." (wiki)
And this is only a little part of a complex topic. Don't read only the english wiki, but the German too. (Automatic translator makes it accessible.) There you get a lot more of information, especially about the heritage of the word. It is very interesting.
Nowadays the word has almost vanished. But that's not because we were urged to do, but by thy way we live. We do not marry that young anymore, so it is normal to be still unmarried or to live together without marriage. More often then in former times some people even wear no ring, although they are married. So before you ask "Are you married?", which would be a little strange as the first question to a stranger, you simply use "Frau" and you can't do wrong.
So the language evolved by itself, by the way we change the way we live and not by the ban of somebody.
(By the way I find it exceedingly more offensive, when people write "Fraulein" instead of "Fräulein". I know that nobody has an "ä" on the keyboard except us, but is it that hard, to write "ae" instead? In this special case it might be looking a little bit strange because of the following "u" -> "Fraeulein", but it looks very much better than "Fraulein". In addition, the "au" is spoken completely different than "äu": "Au" like in "mount" and "äu" like in "joy". "A" like in "aunt"; "ä" sometimes almost like in "cat" (e.g. "Gäste"), sometimes like in "trade" (e.g. "Mädchen").
For me personally, using the wrong form is a sign of disinterest and lack of accepting the other languages individuality. Because this is not a single fail, but seems to be very common. Somehow like "Hey, I know I'm wrong but let's be honest, that points are useless. Just stop using them and do it like we do. We know better." That's why I always try to take care of points, accents (special characters), háčeks (hooks) and so on. I write the ' in that's and it's and let's although I'm not used to do this in my language and I often have to go back and correct it. Because for me it's a sign of making effort to be polite. As much I hate it when somebody is doing it wrong by disinterest, as much I do love it when somebody is at least trying to be correct. It has not even to be correct, as long as I see somebody is trying! But I often miss the effort, the trying, especially with our "ä".
Maybe you now consider me as harsh, but I can tell you, I'm a very friendly person. Whenever somebody tries to speak (or write) German, I'm very delighted and don't care about the errors. I make errors, too. I'm aware that it's a difficult language, especially for English natives. Even Mark Twain gave up. But please use the "ä" (for instance with the NumLock keys and 0228 or 0196) or simply write "ae", then I'm very fine with it and am glad somebody thought about.)