Can we band together to get the TREE back?

[Willardsdaughter]

My previous post, "Escape the Snake" received a lot of support. It seems there are many of us who would greatly prefer to get the Tree back. I don't know why Duo can't (or won't) support both the tree and the snake. The tree seems better for adult learners who want to have some control over the learning process. Frankly I found that the "broken tokens" in the tree provided better review than the so-called "built in review" that the snake boasts. OTOH I think the snake might be ideal for elementary schools who are using Duo, because I can imagine some little kids getting either confused about the tree or frustrated with it. I can't help but imagine that somehow elementary school teachers were able to make their wishes known to Duo. Why can't we? I'm posing the question because I don't have a clue how to do it. But my heart sank just now when my internal link to the tree brought me to the snake.
How do we start a movement that will get us the best of both worlds - the tree and the snake? (That's almost Biblical...) Or is our only recourse to wish for an Elon Musk-type, who will just buy Duo and make it what it really could be: a platform for all kinds of language learners . . .?!?!?
One idea came to me: Attend the next DuoCon en masse, and see if we can get a hearing. What do others think? Let's brainstorm!

[Deleted User 4833]

I used to find the "broken tokens" annoying at first, but they are good for review.

[Thomas.Heiss]

Besides the "Revert last path update" Petition linked on other 2+ places there is not much you/we can do.

Maybe Maxime [mention]duome[/mention] could put the Petition link https://chng.it/TfWYqMtqn5 on the www.duome.eu entry website so 300-500k active users can see it and actually vote for it, not only 15k?

You only can hurt Duolingo staff a bit by creating a school classroom (as a teacher) so at least you don't have to waste your time with video ads on the apps and you can disable health/hearts (there is an Unlimited hearts ON setting - no need to buy Plus/Super amd waste Gems) too.

Reddit AMA (two months ago):

Question (with 927 upvotes) by Grand_Artichoke4238: Do you have any plans to make the updated layout an option?

Dr. Luis von Ahn: I know many people are complaining about the change, especially in this subreddit! Unfortunately, we do not plan to make it an option. I would ask that you give it a real chance, as we've found that most people who don't like it at first end up liking it with time. We're also working on a number of improvements to it based on all the feedback we've gotten, so I hope you'll like it better soon.

Da bin ich echt sprachlos.
Ich muss mich fragen: Haben CEO und CTO noch die volle Kontrolle oder werden die bereits von Investoren u. anderen fremdgesteuert?
Translated: I'm really speechless.
I have to ask myself: Do CEO and CTO still have full control or are they already externally controlled by investors and others?

So the snake was their big answer to all the user suggestions collected here:

https://duolingo.hobune.stream/comment/ ... ike-to-see
Archive: https://archive.ph/Caqdl

(Top 5) Major Updates That Everyone Would Enjoy/Like to See Happen on Duolingo
https://duolingo.hobune.stream/comment/37970201
Archive: https://archive.ph/NBVRS

Of course the new snake won't be usable for reverse- and laddering trees, not even for my finished Portuguese forward tree (lost owl, set back to Infinitives Unit 49 - old tree had three Infinitive skills with many lessons).

Also is NOT compatible with Camilo's TreeEnhancer Tampermonkey userscript.
I even got it working again on www-internal by adding the new sub domain with @match tag to the header but staff simply doesn't care and just redirects now.

Basically means I have to throw away my great English from Portuguese (very long, CEFR, first rolled out to me in 2919, waited so long for it) course.
Can't continue it this or next year that way.

Starting lessons from www.duome.eu/USERNAME/tree won't help much as the userscript can't be loaded on the Home/Learn page (depends on the tree variable and some fixed div element variables in the lessons).
I don't want to hear English audio, but Portuguese audio!

Same issue with the finished German from Portuguese reverse tree if I care to level up crowns or practice again for reviews.

[Deleted User 5745]

[mention]Willardsdaughter[/mention] Absolutely nothing anyone has ever done has persuaded the Owl to give anything back.

Like - EVER.

[Willardsdaughter]

Oh is there - could there be somewhere - an Elon Musk for us . . .?

[Athenais21st]

Sometimes I think that Duolingo reads the forums to find out what features still bring joy to their most devoted users, and notes that those must be removed to make the app better for grade school children.

I downloaded Babbel the other day, and my first impression was, "Wow, this is for grownups."

[Deleted User 5745]

Oh is there - could there be somewhere - an Elon Musk for us . . .?

From what I've heard, Duolingo was taken over by Elon Musk years ago. He was refining his AI techniques by turning any humane and intelligent human workers into nonsensical robots.

[Tom]

The switch to the snake has made Duolingo almost completely unusable for me as well and I had therefore also asked myself whether it might not somehow be possible to convince the Duolingo people that the new concept is (to put it very diplomatically) not so ideal for many people. I did some reading and found out that Luis von Ahn the co-founder and current CEO of Duolingo is firmly convinced that there is little point in listening to the voices of the users. Instead, he seeks his salvation in numbers and AB tests. Specifically: with regard to the unloved snake concept, this means that if the figures he uses (presumably including: number of daily users, average usage time, ranking of the app in the app stores) do not deteriorate, there is no reason for him to question the snake.

I won't even begin to argue here why I don't think these metrics are particularly smart as the sole basis for decisions. Instead, let's think what it means for us that Duolingo is managed via these metrics. If the numbers have not changed significantly for the worse after the introduction of the snake, then Luis von Ahn can of course rightly assume that the new concept (i.e. the snake) is not worse than the old one (i.e. the tree). To put it more radically and personally: If you still use Duolingo (to the same extent as before), then you confirm to Luis von Ahn that you can live with the snake. If you can't live with the snake, then don't use it or use it just minimally (and thus influence Luis von Ahn's metrics). In addition, there are other ways to influence the metrics. I would like to give just one example here: Give bad ratings in the app stores. Presumably, the ratings themselves are a metric that Duolingo monitors, but even if not, they certainly influence the influx of new users and thus the number of active users.

It's a shame, of course, that Luis von Ahn leaves us only this one and destructive way to convince him that the snake has rendered Duolingo useless for some of us. But maybe we are just a small minority and the snake is backed up by largely consistent measurements. For my part, I've now practically scaled down my engagement on Duolingo to zero and left a poor rating in the Android app store as well as on TrustPilot. By the way, the fact that I now use my time differently has definitely done my language skills some good.

[gmads]

Signs of delusion can be observed when a minority is so isolated they don't believe they are a minority and then start thinking as if they were a majority, as if they actually had some kind of power or leverage to change things as they see fit

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  ㆍenglish ㆍgeneral ㆍduolingo ㆍinteresting

[SansEspoir]

For my part, I've now practically scaled down my engagement on Duolingo to zero and left a poor rating in the Android app store as well as on TrustPilot. By the way, the fact that I now use my time differently has definitely done my language skills some good.

Same.
But I said somewhere else; someone on the Discord did the maths, and only about 3% of users have changed their review to a negative one, so he is sadly right, that we are a minority of users.

[buho]

that's not gonna happen.
I had changed my display name to "new duolingo sucks" before I logged out of the service. today it has been changed to "redacted".

[SansEspoir]

I had changed my display name to "new duolingo sucks" before I logged out of the service. today it has been changed to "redacted".

Haha love it. Just changed mine to HateDuosPath

[Athenais21st]

Only a small percentage of users are ornery enough to change a review or even leave a review in the first place. I did cancel my subscription and send a note saying why. I still find the app useful, but it is no longer worth paying for.