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This is what my dictionary says for "the day after tomorrow":
IMG_5119.JPG (116.37 KiB) Viewed 283 times
Am I mistaken or does the niqqud not match the phonetic transcription? The phonetic spelling is "mochrotajim" but according to the niqqud it should be "machratajim" (or "mochratajim" as in the brackets), right? The pronounciation of google-translate hasn't helped me clarify it either, they sound more like "mechrateem".
Are there multiple ways to pronounce this word, and/or is there perhaps a most common way to pronounce it?
Thanks!
Am I mistaken or does the niqqud not match the phonetic transcription? The phonetic spelling is "mochrotajim" but according to the niqqud it should be "machratajim"
The kamatz symbol (אָ) can actually stand for 2 different vowels:
קמץ גדול (big kamatz) - pronounced like A. This is the more common one.
קמץ קטן (small kamatz) - pronounced like O. This is less common.
Edit: Your dictionary transliterates a very common pronunciation which is gramatically incorrect, and assumes both the kamatzes are small and pronounced O.
The pronounciation of google-translate hasn't helped me clarify it either, they sound more like "mechrateem".
Google is horrible. To me it sounds like "mokhorataYIM" with the stress on the last sylable, which is totally wrong, and nobody ever pronounces it that way.
Are there multiple ways to pronounce this word, and/or is there perhaps a most common way to pronounce it?
Edit: According to the Academy there are 2 correct ways to pronounce it: "mokhoratayim" and "makhoratayim". Both are uncommon. However, native speakers usually pronounce it as either "mokhrotayim" or "makhratayim". Both are gramatically incorrect. I'm not sure though which pronunciation is more common.
We have a similar problem with the word צהריים (noon).
Edit: In this song you can hear the common but gramatically incorrect pronunciation "mokhrotayim". I chose a version with Hebrew subtitles, I hope that will make it easier:
Last edited by EranBarLev on Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Google is horrible. To me it sounds like "mokhorataYIM" with the stress on the last sylable, which is totally wrong, and nobody ever pronounces it that way.
I agree, Google is horrible. But I don't want to ask here for the pronunciation of every word I am not sure about, lol. This time it was just too different.
There is only one correct way to pronounce it: "mokhrotayim".
However, many native speakers pronounce it as "makhratayim", as if both the kamatzes were big. This is actually wrong, but it's a very common pronunciation. I'm not sure though which pronunciation is more common.
We have a similar problem with the word צהריים (noon).
You are right, my dictionary puts a (small) kamatz in צהריים as well I didn't notice before because in the book I am using to learn Hebrew it is spelled צוהוריים.
Thank you for explaining and clarifying this! The people in the song (unsurprisingly) pronounce it way better than google
Oh dear. Is there a way to tell whether a kamatz is small or big? Or does one have to learn that individually for every word?
There are some gramatical rules, but they are complicated with many exceptions. I tried to apply them to the word מחרתיים but I couldn't. (Maybe I'm wrong about this word? I'm not sure anymore.) I think it's easier to learn that individually for each word, as the small kamatz is not very common.
Edit: According to the academy there is a dispute between linguists about certain kamatzes. The first kamatz in מחרתיים is one of them, so this word actually has 2 correct pronunciations.
Last edited by EranBarLev on Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
The correct niqqud of this word is מָחֳרָתַיִם, with khataf-kamatz, not מָחְרָתַיִם with a shva.
There are actually 2 correct pronunciations: either mokhoratayim or makhoratayim. Neither of them is very common.
The common pronunciations: mokhrotayim and makhratayim are both gramatically incorrect.
Thank you for summarizing the article, I'm still too bad at Hebrew to be able to read it
So there are actually five syllables instead of four in this word? Interesting. To be honest, I have seen that khataf-kamatz before, but I don't know the difference between a normal kamatz and a khataf-kamatz.
I suppose I should stick with the common pronunciation rather than the formally correct one?
The correct niqqud of this word is מָחֳרָתַיִם, with khataf-kamatz, not מָחְרָתַיִם with a shva.
There are actually 2 correct pronunciations: either mokhoratayim or makhoratayim. Neither of them is very common.
The common pronunciations: mokhrotayim and makhratayim are both gramatically incorrect.
Interesting. I've been repeating the different pronounciations to myself since reading this post and trying to remember how I've heard people say it.
I thought most people I've heard say it mokhrotayim. But it's possible some people say mokhoratayim so fast that it sounds like mokhrotayim. I can't recall having heard people say it mokhoratayim or makhratayim much at all.
So there are actually five syllables instead of four in this word?
No. Khataf-kamatz, as all the khatafs and shva na, is not considered a syllable on its own, but rather part of the following syllable. So this word actually has four syllables: mo - khora - ta - yim. I know it's weird, but that's how Hebrew grammar works.
So there are actually five syllables instead of four in this word?
No. Khataf-kamatz, as all the khatafs and shva na, is not considered a syllable on its own, but rather part of the following syllable. So this word actually has four syllables: mo - khora - ta - yim. I know it's weird, but that's how Hebrew grammar works.
Ohh, alright. That's indeed weird, but I'll remember that.
To be honest, I have seen that khataf-kamatz before, but I don't know the difference between a normal kamatz and a khataf-kamatz.
Khataf-kamatz is always pronounced O. As I've written above, it's not considered a syllable on it's own.
That's good to know. Khataf-kamatz is the only khataf-something that is pronounced noticeably different to the non-khataf version then, right? (I mean, khataf-segol still sounds like "e", khataf-patakh still sounds like "a" and so on I think?)
Khataf-kamatz is the only khataf-something that is pronounced noticeably different to the non-khataf version then, right? (I mean, khataf-segol still sounds like "e", khataf-patakh still sounds like "a" and so on I think?)
Well, no... All the khatafs are reduced versions of small vowels (תנועות קטנות). The small vowels are: patakh, segol, khiriq khaser, kamatz katan and qubutz. Khataf-kamatz is a reduced version of kamatz katan, and sounds exactly like it - O.
Khataf-kamatz is the only khataf-something that is pronounced noticeably different to the non-khataf version then, right? (I mean, khataf-segol still sounds like "e", khataf-patakh still sounds like "a" and so on I think?)
Well, no... All the khatafs are reduced versions of small vowels (תנועות קטנות). The small vowels are: patakh, segol, khiriq khaser, kamatz katan and qubutz. Khataf-kamatz is a reduced version of kamatz katan, and sounds exactly like it - O.
Oh, right, only kamatz gadol is the "a". Gee, these niqqud are more complicated than I thought
Thank you for your patience in explaining it though.
N 
C1 
B2 
B1 
B1 
A1 
A1
I didn't notice before because in the book I am using to learn Hebrew it is spelled צוהוריים.
