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Dar palos de ciego

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Cifi

Dar palos de ciego

Post by Cifi »

Well, it's not really a proverb, just an idiomatic expression I think, but the French proverbs subforum seems to contain a lot of expressions that aren't proverbs either, so I dare post it here.

I found it in a Spanish post in English from Spanish (https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/2928 ... d=45703835), "deja de dar palos de ciego". By context, my idea was that it meant something like "stop telling nonsense" here, but it can also be "taking shots in the dark" or "acting without thinking" according to Wordreference.com.

There are some explanations about the origin of this expression, e.g. https://www.aulafacil.com/articulos/sab ... iego-t1003

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

Cifi

Re: Dar palos de ciego

Post by Cifi »

And a question: does "palo de ciego" have a meaning on its own, or is it only used as part of this expression?

I'm asking because the most literal translation into German would be "Blindenstock", which is a device used by visually impared, like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_can ... g_cane.jpg

Wikipedia redirects to the term "Weißer Langstock", which is called "white cane" in English and "bastón blanco" in Spanish.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

User avatar
Fer²
Spain

Re: Dar palos de ciego

Post by Fer² »

Cifi wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:20 am

I found it in a Spanish post in English from Spanish (https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/2928 ... d=45703835), "deja de dar palos de ciego". By context, my idea was that it meant something like "stop telling nonsense" here, but it can also be "taking shots in the dark" or "acting without thinking" according to Wordreference.com.

The only meaning I'm familiar with would be in the line of "taking shots in the dark". In that discussion, I read it as one user telling the other to learn the actual rules instead of guessing what is or is not correct (incidentally, I don't think they're on the right, but there might be some replies missing). I could see it contextually translating as "acting without thinking", but generally the idea is that you don't have enough information to take action effectively and you're guessing your way around.

Cifi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:39 am

And a question: does "palo de ciego" have a meaning on its own, or is it only used as part of this expression?

I'm asking because the most literal translation into German would be "Blindenstock", which is a device used by visually impared, like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_can ... g_cane.jpg

Wikipedia redirects to the term "Weißer Langstock", which is called "white cane" in English and "bastón blanco" in Spanish.

No, palo de ciego is not a set phrase in general. While it could be conceivably applied to a white cane, you risk sounding disrespectful, and bastón (with a specifier like blanco or de movilidad if needed) is a much safer option. As always, I'm speaking from my experience as a Spaniard and in other countries this may well be different.

In fact, in this expression palos refers to the blows rather than the sticks themselves. As your source suggests, and Iribarren's El porqué de los dichos seems to confirm, the expression originates from a rudimentary game of piñata where blind (or blindfolded?) people tried to kill a pig by hitting it with a stick. As they couldn't see what they're hitting they were just trying their luck with each blow.

:es: | :gb: :fr: :it: Image | :sweden: :de: :ru: | ···

User avatar
Jaruna Cimrman
Czech Republic

Re: Dar palos de ciego

Post by Jaruna Cimrman »

Fer² wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:13 pm
Cifi wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:20 am

I found it in a Spanish post in English from Spanish (https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/2928 ... d=45703835), "deja de dar palos de ciego". By context, my idea was that it meant something like "stop telling nonsense" here, but it can also be "taking shots in the dark" or "acting without thinking" according to Wordreference.com.

... I could see it contextually translating as "acting without thinking", but generally the idea is that you don't have enough information to take action effectively and you're guessing your way around.

Cifi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:39 am

And a question: does "palo de ciego" have a meaning on its own, or is it only used as part of this expression?

No, palo de ciego is not a set phrase in general. While it could be conceivably applied to a white cane, you risk sounding disrespectful, and bastón (with a specifier like blanco or de movilidad if needed) is a much safer option. As always, I'm speaking from my experience as a Spaniard and in other countries this may well be different.

In fact, in this expression palos refers to the blows rather than the sticks themselves. As your source suggests, and Iribarren's El porqué de los dichos seems to confirm, the expression originates from a rudimentary game of piñata where blind (or blindfolded?) people tried to kill a pig by hitting it with a stick. As they couldn't see what they're hitting they were just trying their luck with each blow.

En la República Checa también tenemos este dicho. Exactamente lo mismo en sentido literal. Y muchos otros listados también en otros hilos. Intentaré explicar cómo usamos este dicho en nuestro país.

"deja de dar palos de ciego"
"disparar en la oscuridad" o "actuar sin pensar"

El significado correcto del dicho es el contrario. Es un actuar pensada, pero muy evasiva, es decir, muy cuidadosa. Un ejemplo es un gato que camina alrededor de gachas calientes pero no come del cuenco hasta que las gachas se han enfríado. Además, una persona que supuestamente camina alrededor de un lío caliente evita hablar de algún tema desagradable. El problema sólo se resolverá hablando y actuando con franqueza y al grano.
El checo: ¡Deja de golpear la pajita vacía con un mayal! Ningún grano cae de la paja vacía. Sólo hay charlas inútiles. (Esta es otra frase establecida).

Una nota al final.
No soy bueno en español, solo estoy en un nivel básico. Pero me gusta leer las discusiones porque aprendo más que en las lecciones de un curso de idiomas. Escribí esta publicación con la ayuda del traductor de Google, sin utilizar la ayuda de inteligencia artificial: IA. La IA es bastante inteligente, pero no puede traducir muy bien el checo.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

We also have this saying in the Czech Republic. Exactly the same literally. And many more listed in other threads. I will try to explain how we use this saying here.

"stop beating around the bush"
"shooting in the dark" or "acting without thinking"

The correct meaning of the saying is the opposite. It is a deliberate act, but very evasive, that is, very careful. An example is a cat that walks around hot porridge but does not eat from the bowl until the porridge cools down. In addition, a person who is said to walk around hot mess avoids talking about any unpleasant topic. The problem will be solved only by talking and acting honestly and to the point.
Czech: Stop hitting the empty straw with a flail! No grain falls from empty chaff. It's just useless talk. (This is another established phrase.)

A final note.
I'm not good at Spanish, I'm just at a basic level. But I like to read the discussions because I learn more than in the lessons of a language course. I wrote this post with the help of Google Translate, without the help of artificial intelligence - AI.
The AI is pretty smart, but it can't translate Czech very well. 🙂 🍲 🍨

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