Dear anyone,
Your duolingo forum registration isn't automaticaly transferred to duome forum so in order to join duome forums you need to register with your existing or any other username and email; in any case it's advised that you choose a new password for the forum.
~ Duome Team

Il s'avère que...

Moderators: MoniqueMaRie, dakanga

Jim606185
Australia

Il s'avère que...

Post by Jim606185 »

This is a very useful phrase in French. I use it often for writing summaries after reading the Duolingo stories in French. In English, it's like "It turns out that" Il s'est avéré que Béa avait raison... etc

Without the "que", it can be used in the sense that "it proved (add adjective)"

"Il a même préconisé de s'injecter de l'eau de Javel pour guérir du Covid-19. Cette information s'est avérée totalement fausse."
He even recommended injecting one's self with bleach to cure Covid-19. This piece of information proved to be totally false.
I'm quite happy for any native francophone to correct any errors.

Native English Speaker. Currently studying French, German (basic), Dutch (Beginner), Italian (Intermediate), Russian (basic), Chinese (beginner), Scottish Gaelic (Intermediate), Norwegian (Basic)
Ic rǣde englisc spræce.

Destal
France

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by Destal »

Very interesting case.

Originally, "s'avérer" means "to turn out to be true" (it is the meaning of latin "ver") and couldn't be used with an adjective: "la prophétie s'est avérée" = "the prophecy turned out to be true". This usage is now considered old-fashioned, if not archaic.

With time, it became accepted to use it with an adjective, like "ce médicament s'avère efficace contre la COVID" (side note: "COVID" is supposed to be feminine, but many people use the masculine).

Despite this usage being already far from what the etymology of the verb should allow, most linguists consider that two uses should still be avoided because of the etymology (but most people don't care):

  • "s'avérer vrai", because it is a pleonasm
  • "s'avérer faux", because it is non sense

So synonyms of "vrai" and "faux" should also be avoided obviously, but where is the limit? Here it says that "Les prévisions se sont avérées erronées" is a mistake, but does "erronées" really means "fausses", and if yes, what about "incorrectes", and pushing further, "incomplètes"?

There is another verb, that probably influenced using "s'avérer" this way: "se révéler" + adjective:

  • "La prophétie s'est révélée vraie"
  • "Ce médicament se révèle efficace contre la COVID"

About "il s'avère que" with the impersonnal "il", I suppose that "il s'avère que c'est vrai / faux" is as wrong as in the previous case. And you cannot say "il se révèle que" from what I know.

Jim606185
Australia

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by Jim606185 »

I don't want to contradict L'académie française, but I can understand that Covid used as an implied adjective for virus (Le virus Covid) might appear to be masculine.

Native English Speaker. Currently studying French, German (basic), Dutch (Beginner), Italian (Intermediate), Russian (basic), Chinese (beginner), Scottish Gaelic (Intermediate), Norwegian (Basic)
Ic rǣde englisc spræce.

User avatar
MoniqueMaRie
Germany

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by MoniqueMaRie »

Jim606185 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:45 am

I don't want to contradict L'académie française, but I can understand that Covid used as an implied adjective for virus (Le virus Covid) might appear to be masculine.

Peut-être qu'en France, on dit toujours

La maladie covid
Ou
L'épidémie covid ?

Native :de: / using :uk: / learning :fr: :cn: :it: / once learnt Image / trying to understand at least a bit :poland:

GuillaumeS645182
France

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by GuillaumeS645182 »

[/quote]

Peut-être qu'en France, on dit toujours

La maladie covid
Ou
L'épidémie covid ?
[/quote]

Le Covid
L'épidemie de Covid
La maladie du Covid
I'm French and these are the ones I hear on a daily basis. L'académie française is an institution that dictates how people should speak French according to itself. The people makes what is wants of the language. People argue that Covid is either une maladie, or that it is un virus. French dictionaries indicate Covid as an either masculine or feminine noun (no joke, look at this https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/covid). Very few people recognize the AF's authority in daily life and most of us speak French in a way that feels natural, even if it isn't technically right. It all depends on where you live, where you grew up, and the social class you belong to.

User avatar
dakanga

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by dakanga »

This is what I believe is the link that is relevant to this discussion :

https://www.academie-francaise.fr/le-co ... a-covid-19

And also perhaps this one :
https://www.academie-francaise.fr/othilie-p-c-autriche

User avatar
MoniqueMaRie
Germany

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by MoniqueMaRie »

In German it is easier: no article at all for COVID (or Corona as we say more often). So I never asked myself before what the article should be in any language.

Native :de: / using :uk: / learning :fr: :cn: :it: / once learnt Image / trying to understand at least a bit :poland:

User avatar
dakanga

Re: Il s'avère que...

Post by dakanga »

Reading this for a second time, I will be referencing to this post, from one of the appropriate "Story" index posts.

This is a GREAT TIP !

Thank you [mention]Jim606185[/mention] !

Post Reply

Return to “Questions”