Change-over to 'Path' DuoLingo botched -- big shortchange in purple level amount

[Ady]

I need a place to vent. Duo, ya botched it.

Problem #1: PURPLE CROWN CREDIT NOT DONE AS DESCRIBED (PER-UNIT, >=50% FOR FULL CREDIT)

• A recent DuoLingo article about the change-over to the 'Path' system read that if a person had earned purple crowns in at least 50% of the topics in a unit by November 1st, they would be given credit for purple-crown level for that entire unit in the new system.
  Well the course I'm doing had 4 units, and back when the article was released (late September or early October) I had already turned 2 of the units completely purple, and 1 of the units 75% purple (and 0% for the last unit). Based on the DuoLingo article I worked hard on the 4th unit to get it from 0% purple (it was just all gold) to 50% purple before November 1st. This means that on November 1st I should have woken up to seeing a fully completed course---100% purple. ...but NO.
  It turns out the article must have been referencing the upcoming definition of 'unit'. The course I'm doing had 4 units (and 69 topics) pre-Path, but under the Path system those concepts have been muddled together and there are now 45 'units' (which I'll now refer to as topic-units for clarity). How was anyone supposed to know that they were using a new and very different definition of 'unit'? Beyond that, how exactly were 69 topics boiled down into just 45 topic-units? It gets worse...

Problem #2: PURPLE CROWN CREDIT NOT EVEN DONE FAIRLY (USERS SHORTCHANGED)

• Before November 1st I had purple crowns for 10/10 Units 1 topics, 26/26 Unit 2 topics, 12/17 Unit 3 topics, and 8/16 Unit 4 topics. That's 56/69 topics purple, or 81% purple.
  (I actually got a 9th topic from Unit 4 purple on November 1st but before I saw any updated, Path, DuoLingo interface, so really it was 57/69 or 83% pre-Path, but I'm trying to be fair and only count what I had before the change-over date.)
  As outlined in 'Problem #1' above, if the DuoLingo article were correct that should have resulted in 100% purple in the Path system, but no. OK, well surely they would at least convert things over fairly? Nope. In the new system I have 34/45 of the new topic-unit things purple, or 76% purple. Why any difference at all, and why a shortfall? It took a lot of scrimping and saving gems or lingots just to be able to do the 4 'challenges' required to earn a single purple crown, so any backsliding here is painful. Once you've brought everything in your language of choice up to the gold level, getting gems or lingots is extremely slow unless you jump into another language where you can actually still level anything up.
  Oh but it gets worse still...

Problem #3: EARNING A PURPLE LEVEL NOW REQUIRES TWICE AS MANY CHALLENGES (8 INSTEAD OF 4)

• What a joke. Yes, there are fewer topic-units in the Path system as there were topics in the pre-Path system, but it's not half (45/69 = 65% as many). To turn everything purple pre-Path would take (694=) 276 challenges. To do the same in-Path would take (458=) 360. This 8-challenge thing combined with being shortchanged on the conversion means whereas I had only (134=) 52 challenges left to complete the course before (and it should actually have been 0 more challenges if the article were to be believed), now Duo is trying to make me do (118=) 88 more challenges.

[OlwenLouise]

I sympathise Ady - I am so upset and literally nauseated after looking at train-wreck they made of my language studies. I wish I could even start to understand how what there is now relates to what I had before but it makes no sense to me at all. Thank you for showing me that such an understanding is at least possible.

[Gentianopsis]

I had two L6 language courses (all their skills completed to L6) in the old Duolingo. In the new Duolingo, my last "units" became yellow, although my courses were finished long ago and regularly practised. In both of these courses, I had to take a very short test (difficulty L1 compared to the old courses), and both of the courses became "legendary" again. In all my courses, number of "units" is significantly lower than the numbers of skills used to be: Czech from English 84 skills -> 54 units, Russian from English 79 skills -> 51 units, English from Russian 129 skills+212 stories -> 130 units, English from Czech 55 skills+84 stories -> 49 units.

I really do not understand what Duolingo is after, because I find uncomparably more useful to achieve at least intermediate level in a few languages than to be nothing more than a beginner in a great number of languages, but able to communicate in your mother tongue only.

[Ady]

I sympathise Ady - I am so upset and literally nauseated after looking at train-wreck they made of my language studies.

Here's a related move in the wrong direction I just discovered DuoLingo did:
Pre-Path, you would get two (2) lingots for every (1) circle completed.
In-Path, you get one (1) lingot for every two, three, or 4 (2, 3 ,or 4) circles completed.

On the app side, gems are also harder to get. Since my last app update the watch-ad-to-get-gems option is mysteriously missing most of the time. (Really?? You don't want me to generate ad revenue for you??)

So they've really turned down the spigots on earning lingots and gems.
Between that and Problem #3 above, they've really moved the goalposts. It looks like will now take about three times as long to get a purple level.
Just how much abuse do you expect us to endure, Duo?

[Ady]

I had two L6 language courses (all their skills completed to L6) in the old Duolingo. In the new Duolingo, my last "units" became yellow, although my courses were finished long ago and regularly practised.

This is very useful information. I never would have guessed that DuoLingo would shortchange someone on a course that was already completely finished off. Unforgivable. Thank you so much for sharing, Gentianopsis.

In both of these courses, I had to take a very short test (difficulty L1 compared to the old courses), and both of the courses became "legendary" again.

So you didn't have to do 8 challenges, each costing 100 gems or 10 lingots, to get each purple level?

[Gentianopsis]

So you didn't have to do 8 challenges, each costing 100 gems or 10 lingots, to get each purple level?

Absolutely not. These tests were for free (no lingots needed), 10 simple questions (matching word pairs, choosing a single word to the short sentence, beginners' vocabulary, absolutely no advanced grammar) and 40XP for finishing a test.

However, in one of my unfinished courses, I was offered those 8 tests for "legendary". I thought I could do that, because I had many more skills finished that the number of the snake's unit was and all my notes with sentences with me. It was a cruel joke, because I just paid 10 lingots to see sentences I have never met in the old course and containing completely unknown vocabulary. I consider this incompatibility of one's placement in the "tree" course and in the "snake" course a very serious flaw, because the structure of these courses is completely different: you simply cannot be taken from one and continue in the other, you have to throw away all your progress so far and start from scratch in the "snake". Not a big problem, if you only finished one or two skills from the whole tree, but for someone working hard on it for months or even years and being somewhere in the middle of the tree... well, no comment.

[Gentianopsis]

Here's a related move in the wrong direction I just discovered DuoLingo did:
Pre-Path, you would get two (2) lingots for every (1) circle completed.
In-Path, you get one (1) lingot for every two, three, or 4 (2, 3 ,or 4) circles completed.
On the app side, gems are also harder to get.
...
Just how much abuse do you expect us to endure, Duo?

You misunderstand it. Duolingo does not want hardworking persistent students finishing their courses and learning languages from them for free. THEY WANT MONEY. If you pay, you do not need any lingots/gems for legendary, you can practise your mistakes that "freeloaders" cannot... It makes sense to make courses shorter, easier to finish, with advantages for paying students... (That is why so many rich people, especially politicians in my home country have American university degrees: there is no need to learn anything, you just pay and then receive the title.)

[Ady]

I think I'll be using your 'tree course' and 'snake course' terms ('snake' move by DuoLingo sounds apt), especially since you are telling me the course content is so different and this wasn't just a change in presentation (and a limiting of options).

By the way, in the tree course I was doing (Esperanto from English), considering each level of each topic equally (including Level 6 (purple), which was really only different in that it required all that tedious gem/lingot collection as extra hurdles not at all related to language learning), I was 97% done. Imagine how bad DuoLingo has to be to have users heading for the exits at the 97% mark.

[Ady]

Here's a related move in the wrong direction I just discovered DuoLingo did:
Pre-Path, you would get two (2) lingots for every (1) circle completed.
In-Path, you get one (1) lingot for every two, three, or 4 (2, 3 ,or 4) circles completed.
On the app side, gems are also harder to get.
...
Just how much abuse do you expect us to endure, Duo?

You misunderstand it. Duolingo does not want hardworking persistent students finishing their courses and learning languages from them for free. THEY WANT MONEY. If you pay, you do not need any lingots/gems for legendary, you can practise your mistakes that "freeloaders" cannot... It makes sense to make courses shorter, easier to finish, with advantages for paying students... (That is why so many rich people, especially politicians in my home country have American university degrees: there is no need to learn anything, you just pay and then receive the title.)

Well put. Haha.

They do have two revenue streams, though: from users who pay directly, and from advertisers.
I didn't love watching all the ads, but I was OK with it. That was the trade I was making.

By the way, recent changes to the mobile app (from a while before the move to the Snake Courses) seem to have all but removed the option to watch extra ads for an extra trickle of gems. They actually shot themselves in the foot on that side of the revenue stream!

[pj1506]

Using www-internal.duolingo.com/learn might alleviate the problem.

[mesterkata91]

This is all absolutely outrageous. The new interface has become unqualifiedly awful. With the same amount of practice, you can earn far fewer points. There is no point in it all. I will stop after 250 days of continuous practice because it has become useless!!!
They took away all the motivation. The best features have been taken away. They took away the ability to practice unlimited legendary functions, which is exactly what you could improve the most by practicing. It's not about student progress, it's about profit. Disgusting. I was very disappointed. It's all pointless, it's completely put me off.
I know their goal was to get as many subscribers as possible, but they don't watch the ads - which is where the big revenue comes from. I think a lot of people stop Duolingo for good.
I am sad because I loved very much. The new surface is gas! Down with it!!!
Duo, you REALLY SCREWED UP!

[Ady]

Using www-internal.duolingo.com/learn might alleviate the problem.

This is very, very useful. Thank you so much!
This is a lifeline for people who want to avoid the snake courses.
(Another lifeline, for the mobile app side of things, is disabling automatic updating of the app.)

[Ady]

I discovered something else amazing that really takes the sting out of this change, by the way, and actually makes things even better than before!

You can earn purple crowns without needing to spend gems or lingots!!!
You do it by clicking through, on one of the gold icons (if you have any), from this kind of page (for your account):
https://duome.eu/ATLmW/progress

I've been mainlining it for days (in case DuoLingo somehow tries to make this not work anymore at some point) and I am now just one purple crown short of completing my entire course to the top level (Level 6)!!!

[Ady]

I discovered something else amazing that really takes the sting out of this change, by the way, and actually makes things even better than before!

You can earn purple crowns without needing to spend gems or lingots!!!
You do it by clicking through, on one of the gold icons (if you have any), from this kind of page (for your account):
https://duome.eu/ATLmW/progress

I've been mainlining it for days (in case DuoLingo somehow tries to make this not work anymore at some point) and I am now just one purple crown short of completing my entire course to the top level (Level 6)!!!

One weird thing is even though I've earned purple crowns for 12 of the 13 topics I was missing them for (in my tree course), I have only been given credit for the purple level of 2 of the 11 'unit'-topics (in my snake course). Here's hoping that earning that last purple tree crown will trigger credit for the last 9 purple snake levels! Otherwise the new system makes even less sense.

I'll report back...

[water_color]

I personally don't understand why you are angry that you have less Legendary levels than you were supposed to, and have to complete more challenges to get Legendary than before. Because myself, I would rather be angry about the opposite things, i.e. too many puprle levels closing me the way to practice stuff I need to practice. On the other hand, if you don't need to practice certain stuff you can just ignore it and let it remain golden and not puprle. It looks like you perceive Duolingo as a game and care about achievements more than about actual learning...

[water_color]

In all my courses, number of "units" is significantly lower than the numbers of skills used to be: Czech from English 84 skills -> 54 units, Russian from English 79 skills -> 51 units, English from Russian 129 skills+212 stories -> 130 units, English from Czech 55 skills+84 stories -> 49 units.

Usually, each unit in the "new path" has 2 new skills and several old ones (i.e. those that were first introduced in previous units). That's the reason why there are less units in the path than skills in the tree. They haven't really removed any learning content from the course.

(Even though they removed levels 4 and 5 so making the path legendary will actually take you less time than with the tree. But that doesn't mean the course has less content, it means you visit the same content less times. But in your post you didn't mean that it seems)

[Gentianopsis]

Usually, each unit in the "new path" has 2 new skills and several old ones (i.e. those that were first introduced in previous units). That's the reason why there are less units in the path than skills in the tree. They haven't really removed any learning content from the course.

You seem to know the "snake" well, so, please, explain it to me. Are you sure about Duolingo not reducing the course content? I stopped using it because it always makes me repeat very low level knowledge only and the same goes for lessons. I finished legendary, but in the "snake", Duolingo asks me just for translation of single words, to fill a single word into a short simple sentence or to pair words, while I used to write whole long sentences, sometimes even more sentences in one question. The number of sentences in a lesson/exercise used to be 15-18 (for L1-L5 and practice), while in the "snake", my average is around 6 sentences per lesson/exercise (for L1-L2 and practice). Where did all the more difficult sentences from the old Duolingo go? There are not so many lessons in the "snake" to compensate for shortening all the lessons, especially when there are only 3 levels instead of 6! Or do you just have to practise for years after achieving the legendary "snake" in hope that you will meet all the sentences from the old course finally some day?

[water_color]

You seem to know the "snake" well, so, please, explain it to me. Are you sure about Duolingo not reducing the course content? I stopped using it because it always makes me repeat very low level knowledge only and the same goes for lessons. I finished legendary, but in the "snake", Duolingo asks me just for translation of single words, to fill a single word into a short simple sentence or to pair words, while I used to write whole long sentences, sometimes even more sentences in one question. The number of sentences in a lesson/exercise used to be 15-18 (for L1-L5 and practice), while in the "snake", my average is around 6 sentences per lesson/exercise (for L1-L2 and practice). Where did all the more difficult sentences from the old Duolingo go? There are not so many lessons in the "snake" to compensate for shortening all the lessons, especially when there are only 3 levels instead of 6! Or do you just have to practise for years after achieving the legendary "snake" in hope that you will meet all the sentences from the old course finally some day?

Do you use the app? Because in the web version, the number of sentences per lesson is still 16 or 17 after the snake update (if you don't skip listening and speaking, but even if you do, it is still more than 5-6). So for me, the amount of content is the same in the tree and the path.

The only time when I see 5-6 sentences per lesson is when I practice those skills that are already golden or legendary.

[Stasia]

Do you use the app? Because in the web version, the number of sentences per lesson is still 16 or 17 after the snake update (if you don't skip listening and speaking, but even if you do, it is still more than 5-6). So for me, the amount of content is the same in the tree and the path.

The amount of content is not the same because the path removed the upper levels - you know, the levels where you were actually actively engaging your brain by writing translations, rather than just clicking on words.

[water_color]

The amount of content is not the same because the path removed the upper levels - you know, the levels where you were actually actively engaging your brain by writing translations, rather than just clicking on words.

On the web version you can choose writing instead of clicking even on early levels. For me, the only difference between L1 and any levels above is that on L1 you mostly have to translate from your target language, whereas on higher levels you get more exercise where you translate into your target language. And levels 4 and 5 aren't that different from L2 and L3. But that's only for the web version, on the app you can't disable word banks, and that's why I don't use the app.

[BizProf]

Using www-internal.duolingo.com/learn might alleviate the problem.

MERCI!!!!