Dear anyone,
Your duolingo forum registration isn't automaticaly transferred to duome forum so in order to join duome forums you need to register with your existing or any other username and email; in any case it's advised that you choose a new password for the forum.
~ Duome Team

Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please Topic is solved

We are not Duolingo, we cannot solve any problems directly, but we can provide community-based advice.


SicilianDragon
United States of America

Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by SicilianDragon »

So I read one source that says the Duolingo Levels are based on CEFR, which has a standard 6-Level system: A1(Beginner) through C2 (Proficient). Most language apps and classes have something similar.

But even though Duolingo links often talk about the "Level system," I haven't found anything that explains what each one means, or what it's equivalent to. I see that there are 25, but the site only describes them in points, XP, etc. This does me no good, because this isn't a video game. So does anyone understand:

1) How to "convert" the 25 Levels to equivalents in normal terms (beginner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, proficient, etc.).
2) How to see what Level you're actually on in your account, and not just how many points you have.

Thanks

User avatar
Jacko079
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by Jacko079 »

1) How to "convert" the 25 Levels to equivalents in normal terms (beginner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, proficient, etc.).

Sadly, they don’t convert. The levels only tell you how much xp/points you have earned. Because you can earn xp so fast now, those levels don’t really mean a lot now. Here’s another article explaining about them.

2) How to see what Level you're actually on in your account, and not just how many points you have.

Duome.eu gives a lot of information about how far you are into your course! Here is (I’m guessing) your Duome profile, you should find a lot of different stats there.

I looked up what the CEFR level was for the Duolingo Spanish course, (which it seems you’re doing) and the level was supposedly a B1.

Learning: Italian and Arabic.

HeavenBender
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by HeavenBender »

Jacko079 wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:41 am

I looked up what the CEFR level was for the Duolingo Spanish course, (which it seems you’re doing) and the level was supposedly a B1.

Yes, that is true, and I believe Duolingo should provide you with all the vocabulary, grammar, and sentence structures you might need in the real world (at least in the Spanish course). However, knowing B1 language content doesn't necessarily mean you have a B1 level. Remember that there are four different skills that you need to master in order to achieve a certain CEFR level: listening, reading, writing, and speaking.

Assuming you use ONLY Duolingo in the most effective way possible, you should achieve a B1 (or maybe even B2) level in reading as reading is all about knowing vocabulary and grammatical structures. However, you will probably not get as high of a level in your other proficiency areas.

With listening, Duolingo does play audio throughout the lessons and incorporates a fair number of listening exercises throughout the lessons, but you will probably only have an A2 level in listening upon finishing the course. The rate of speech with Duolingo's voices is slow compared to real-world Spanish (which is the second-fastest spoken human language known to linguists). I'm not saying that's bad (it would be worse for learners just getting familiar with vocabulary to listen to rapid speech), but you should practice some listening skills on your own as well.

With writing, Duolingo only provides about two English-to-Spanish translation exercises per lesson on average, which means that you would not be practicing writing a lot. Therefore, upon completing the course, you should have an A1 level in writing.

With speaking, there are very few speaking exercises in each lesson, and the speaking exercises only merely prompt you to speak a sentence word-for-word. There is no feedback given for speaking exercises, nor is it easy to figure out your own mistakes in pronunciation. Besides, most language proficiency tests focus more on whether you can deliver a well-organized and original speech and come up with spontaneous responses in conversation than the pronunciation aspect of speaking. Therefore, you should not get very far with speaking upon finishing the Duolingo Spanish course, so you should get an A1 level in speaking (at BEST), but probably not even that (in other words, an A0 level).

I'm not saying that Duolingo is bad in any way; it's definitely a good resource for language learning, but as with any resource, using it by itself is not enough. You should use other resources, and by "other resources", I don't necessarily mean you need to sign up for other language learning platforms as well. Coming up with your own ways to practice your skills (talking to native speakers, doing daily speaking prompts, doing writing prompts, and even listening to songs or watching videos) is just as good. In fact, many of us are using other resources without even knowing we are.

🇺🇸 N 🇨🇳 N2 🇪🇸 B2 🇧🇷 B1

SicilianDragon
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by SicilianDragon »

Jacko079 wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:41 am

1) How to "convert" the 25 Levels to equivalents in normal terms (beginner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, proficient, etc.).

Sadly, they don’t convert. The levels only tell you how much xp/points you have earned. Because you can earn xp so fast now, those levels don’t really mean a lot now. Here’s another article explaining about them.

2) How to see what Level you're actually on in your account, and not just how many points you have.

Duome.eu gives a lot of information about how far you are into your course! Here is (I’m guessing) your Duome profile, you should find a lot of different stats there.

I looked up what the CEFR level was for the Duolingo Spanish course, (which it seems you’re doing) and the level was supposedly a B1.

Thanks for helping investigate. Actually, I've never even found something that compares levels to courses like you describe. Could you please copy and paste the link? Thanks (and I'll give you another "thanks" point too).

Last edited by SicilianDragon on Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SicilianDragon
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by SicilianDragon »

HeavenBender wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:20 pm
Jacko079 wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:41 am

I looked up what the CEFR level was for the Duolingo Spanish course, (which it seems you’re doing) and the level was supposedly a B1.

However, knowing B1 language content doesn't necessarily mean you have a B1 level.

Oh, I know that all too well. I read it better than anything (which is what the test was based on). I can articulate basic Spanish sentences with eloquence and correct pronunciation when I consciously think them through. But when it comes to hearing/understanding it in conversation, I'm completely as deaf as a post. Curiously, nearly everyone I've talked to about it (at any rate, native Spanish speakers in respect to English) are the diametrical opposite.

Looks like you guys answered most of what I needed to know about the Levels. The thing is, Hierarchy structures are my personal niche (and that includes systems like this where you "work your way up." Actually, I'm probably drawn as much to these courses because of that (and the ideas it gives me) as to learn the actual language (although I live in So-Cal, so it's certainly a plus). Unfortunately, it really de-motivates me when something is so vague like Duolingo's system...but I guess you get what you pay for.

SicilianDragon
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by SicilianDragon »

Jacko079 wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:41 am

1) How to "convert" the 25 Levels to equivalents in normal terms (beginner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, proficient, etc.).

Sadly, they don’t convert. The levels only tell you how much xp/points you have earned. Because you can earn xp so fast now, those levels don’t really mean a lot now. Here’s another article explaining about them.

Yep, that's the article I was referring to in the OP. It says it "explains them" but then just rants about a much of random game points and XP jargon like some World of Warcraft game, without getting around to explaining a thing that will make sense to anyone not already immersed in Duolingo.

I can get caustic like this sometimes, since I'm a data addict and always look for clarity. But clearly Duolingo's foundation (and obviously blogs) are conceived by major right-brain thought. I suppose that's helpful to many people who don't like the approaches of formal courses.

b05aplmun.ca
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by b05aplmun.ca »

1) How to "convert" the 25 Levels to equivalents in normal terms (beginner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, proficient, etc.).
2) How to see what Level you're actually on in your account, and not just how many points you have.

When the level system was more central to Duolingo, we used to say that you could theoretically reach Level 25 by doing the same lesson over and over again ,and that was true. Now it's not possible to do the same lesson over and over, but you could do the same skill endlessly and eventually get up to 30,000XP (or level 25)

It would take a tad longer than it used to, since Duolingo is, I believe, not letting you do more than one repetition of a gold skill a day, but it would be quite possible.

Also, keep in mind that some people come in with a reasonable level of proficiency already and use Duolingo largely for practice.

There is no direct connection between level and proficiency.

SicilianDragon
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by SicilianDragon »

b05aplmun.ca wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:15 am

1) How to "convert" the 25 Levels to equivalents in normal terms (beginner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, proficient, etc.).
2) How to see what Level you're actually on in your account, and not just how many points you have.

When the level system was more central to Duolingo, we used to say that you could theoretically reach Level 25 by doing the same lesson over and over again ,and that was true. Now it's not possible to do the same lesson over and over, but you could do the same skill endlessly and eventually get up to 30,000XP (or level 25)

It would take a tad longer than it used to, since Duolingo is, I believe, not letting you do more than one repetition of a gold skill a day, but it would be quite possible.

Also, keep in mind that some people come in with a reasonable level of proficiency already and use Duolingo largely for practice.

There is no direct connection between level and proficiency.

This is the name of the six main CEFR levels, which Duolingo claims is the base for its program. So yes, there is a purely direct correlation between C2 and proficient here, in terms of content at least. Same with all the corresponding levels and numbers.

C2 Proficient
C1 Advanced
B2 Upper Intermediate
B1 Intermediate
A2 Elementary
A1 Beginner

I know you've seen those...obviously you meant in practice: there's no direct correlation between people's skill and the level they choose? True, there are always exceptions...I would start back at A1 myself even though I'd likely test into A2. but Levels in most lessons (not just academics, but everything from kids' swimming lessons to chess lessons to golf lessons) are named after skill level. They're classified by who they're intended to teach (assuming they remember the past ones and are moving sequentially), and thus take to the next level. They know not everyone will choose the corresponding one, of course...but at least they lay it out so people have a base.

Another reason why proficient people still practice (as you point out) is that proficient and fluent aren't synonyms. Some systems have levels above "proficient," and ACTFL has "superior" and "distinguished" as the top two.

Duolingo doesn't have any obligation to follow CEFR, but I think it's a bit uncalled for to pretend they do. In the article below, the lady boasts that they use CEFR to set goals for people, then copies and pastes that chart from it. The last two paragraphs make it seem that they are important benchmarks to focus on, and that Duolingo will guide you by tracking your Level clearly. Then when you go to try it out, you get the whirl-around with this frenzy of arcade points and pointless candy crush icons. Reminds me of one of Eric Cartman's schemes when he tries to create a real business.

https://blog.duolingo.com/goldilocks-an ... ust-right/

On top of that, it turns out Duolingo (even by Level 25) is only designed to take you through the end of B2. Same with Busuu and a few others. There are official tests to get "certified" as C2, etc. But I don't see any lessons offered for advanced or proficient people. It seems the idea is once you're at B2 you're supposed to immerse yourself and become fluent naturally...or else take an expensive class?

If anyone cares, I've attached a screenshot of another lesson system. This isn't certifications (like CEFR and ACTFL), but an actual template for courses. The ones in the middle (halves) are like the equivalent to "May term/summer capstones" in college; the "in-between" phase for review and assessment. A super-committed person could actually take all of these back-to-back, but there is no obligation to do so. It would just help everyone make sense of what caliber their lessons are so they can choose what they want.

Attachments
a.png
a.png (25.04 KiB) Viewed 8803 times
Last edited by SicilianDragon on Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
luciennet
France

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by luciennet »

While Duolingo doesn’t make it explicit in the app, if you read their blog they do explain how they link to the CEFR levels and/or are in the process of aligning them further.

The courses that are best aligned are French & Spanish for English speakers and the English certification for LOTE speakers.

In the duolingo tree (not the new path: they haven’t yet posted about how that aligns), Units 1-5 relate to A1& A2 level, and the rest of the course takes up to B2 level.

They have done some studies comparing progress of Duolingo users to university students on reading and listening and for those first 5 units (A1-A2) it was better than the the performance of four semesters of university level, while taking less time. They also compared at 7 unit level (B1) which was roughly equivalent to 6 semesters, and Duolingo students still did ok however the university students outperformed them. These are average results - doesn’t mean that every person will get same in the results.

For speaking skills they did another study after 5 units of Duolingo half of students achieved at A2 level or higher. https://blog.duolingo.com/how-well-does ... ng-skills/

Duolingo is strongest in teaching reading and listening skills, ok at teaching speaking skills, and I don’t think they have done or released studies about writing skills. Duolingo is particularly good at teaching the early language levels, however is not necessarily as strong at higher levels compared to university.

However I would also note that in the case of comparing university students; students who perform poorly will drop out or be unable to proceed to further advanced classes due to failing marks, so one would expect that those who have done 6 semesters of classes would only be those who are ‘best’ of the initial cohort. Duolingo on the other hand is designed to keep people engaged regardless of whether they are the ‘best’, so it is a bigger range of type of people using the app. Like, often elite schools do well because they only enrol people who are already high achieving; they don’t take average people and help them become high achieving.

But Duolingo varies hugely by language . Some courses are not yet very developed or aligned: it is a work in progress.

And it is just one tool. As you advance as a language learner you’d want to be doing other things too especially around conversation listening and speaking skills.

And it depends on your goals as to which tools/approach will be best for you.

Some links about Duolingo and CEFR

https://blog.duolingo.com/how-are-duoli ... -evolving/

https://blog.duolingo.com/how-well-does-duolingo-work/

This is the scope and alignment in detail for Spanish
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CJX ... hMoy8/edit

https://www.duolingo.com/efficacy

https://studyabroad.shiksha.com/duoling ... epage-2495

https://blog.duolingo.com/the-duolingo- ... g-content/

User avatar
Jacko079
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by Jacko079 »

For some reason I haven’t been getting any notifications for this post, and I just saw all these comments now.

It looks like [mention]luciennet[/mention] has done a thorough job in investigating though. :)

Learning: Italian and Arabic.

User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by Corinnebelle »

So just at a random guess, I'd say level 5-6 is like the introductory phase 0, level 11-12 beginner 1A, level 16-17 beginner fundamentals 1 B, 21sh beginner elementary 1C, 23 advanced beginner, 25 pre-intermediate. I have gotten further than that to tell you how I would guess it would be after 25.

It depends on the language and how easy it is for you to learn to how advanced you'll be based on your XP level, that is if you do XP to learn. It also depends how you study. If you bring everything up to legendary straight away and do a lot of stories and other extras your XP will be higher without you having learnt that many new lessons. Just because you've leveled up to legendary doesn't you've always mastered lessons. Practice helps as well, which adds XP.

🇺🇸 L1 🇮🇱 Advanced beginner Duolingo levels

Languages without borders, languages bridging gaps, the Red Cross are my heroes.

User avatar
SimbiAni
United States of America

Re: Help with clarifying the Duolingo Level meaning, please

Post by SimbiAni »

The biggest? confusion here seems to be that there's different types of levels xD

XP levels are solely about XP & not relevant at all to how much you've actually learned / retained.. (& the old measuring system doesn't make much sense anyway, I prefer to measure XP levels my own way, by the thousand, ie XPL001 = 1K, XPL060 = 60K, etc)

Tree levels are more about how many "bubbles" have you completed to each level in a bubble, ie an "L1 Tree" is when each bubble has been completed to at least "(Crown) Level One" (see image below) & thus the endgoal is a full L5 (gold) or L6 (shiny purple / Legendary) tree..

Image

The new path seems to nix all "bubble levels" by turning them into singular stepping stones, so, not sure how that translates to "how will you know when you've done the equivalent of an L2 tree?" now, heh.. but the goal is still to just get to the end ;P

I still have all L0 trees, because I'm veeerrry slow.. lol so who knows when I'll get my first L1 tree!

[mention]SicilianDragon[/mention] what is your Duo link? I tried https://duome.eu/Guillermo827824 but it looks empty..

🇺🇸 = fluent from youth & only one to 'stick'; 🇨🇦 = lifelong from nonblood relatives
🇩🇴🇵🇷 = lifelong exposure via local cultures; 🇮🇹 = for discovering genetic heritage
🇧🇷 = cuz why not; 🇰🇷🇯🇵 = L❤VE!! +24 more lol omg https://duome.eu/SimbiAni

Post Reply

Return to “Duolingo”