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Emphasis

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Jimbo

Emphasis

Post by Jimbo »

So, back on the Duolingo forum it was commonplace for people to say that certain things could be used for emphasis but nobody ever clarified how that emphasis gets used, so while I think it's fairly intuitive please let me see if I have it right using the example sentence 'We are dancing':

"Bailamos" = "We're dancing"
"Nosotros(/as) bailamos" = "We are dancing"
"Estamos bailando" = We are dancing"

I'm not sure what "We're dancing" in the in the brusque, nay, outright rude sense of 'so shift it and dance with me already' would be. Maybe "¡Estemos bailando!" or just "¡Bailemos!"?

And in other sentences, I guessed that "Me gusta" means "I like it" as a somewhat neutral phrase (or I guess "I like him/her" possibly in the romantic sense) while "A mí me gusta" is more like the 'I like it' in "Well I like it so there"?

(Actually, does gustar keep its romantic undertones when it's used for groups - e.g. "Me gustáis" or "Nos gustan"? That's something that hasn't occurred to me before.)

So please, did I get any of that right? And more importantly, what did I get wrong?

Thank you in advance.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Emphasis

Post by gmads »

Jimbo wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:59 am

So, back on the Duolingo forum it was commonplace for people to say that certain things could be used for emphasis but nobody ever clarified how that emphasis gets used, so while I think it's fairly intuitive please let me see if I have it right using the example sentence 'We are dancing':

"Bailamos" = "We're dancing"
"Nosotros(/as) bailamos" = "We are dancing"
"Estamos bailando" = We are dancing"

I'm not sure what "We're dancing" in the in the brusque, nay, outright rude sense of 'so shift it and dance with me already' would be. Maybe "¡Estemos bailando!" or just "¡Bailemos!"?

I don't think I'd say there is any sense of emphasis in any of the three sentences. Maybe within a context and depending on the spoken tone... there could be some.

Jimbo wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:59 am

And in other sentences, I guessed that "Me gusta" means "I like it" as a somewhat neutral phrase (or I guess "I like him/her" possibly in the romantic sense) while "A mí me gusta" is more like the 'I like it' in "Well I like it so there"?

Once again... it would depend on the context.

Jimbo wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:59 am

(Actually, does gustar keep its romantic undertones when it's used for groups - e.g. "Me gustáis" or "Nos gustan"? That's something that hasn't occurred to me before.)

Yes, maybe in a polyamorous relationship, one could say to the loved ones, "me gustan."

I'd say that emphasis is usually expressed by adding some particular words —like "sí" or "mismo" or the verb "jurar"—, or phrases —like "así que uno diga"—, for example:

  • yo estoy estudiando / yo sí estoy estudiando
  • ella resolvió el problema / ella misma resolvió el problema
  • el niño dijo que él no había roto el jarrón / el niño juró que él [...]
  • él no es estudioso / estudioso, así que uno diga "estudioso", no, no lo es


:hash:  ㆍespañol ㆍgramática

Last edited by gmads on Mon May 08, 2023 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jimbo

Re: Emphasis

Post by Jimbo »

Thank you.

All I can say is, this makes me wonder why pretty much all sentence discussions for Tree 1 were filled with variations of 'Subject pronouns are usually dropped but you can use them to add emphasis', if it doesn't actually make any difference.

gmads wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:22 am
Jimbo wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:59 am

(Actually, does gustar keep its romantic undertones when it's used for groups - e.g. "Me gustáis" or "Nos gustan"? That's something that hasn't occurred to me before.)

Yes, maybe in a polyamorous relationship, one could say to the loved ones, "me gustan."

Good to know.

gmads wrote:

I'd say that emphasis is usually expressed by adding some particular words —like "sí" or "mismo" or the verb "jurar"—, or phrases —like "así que uno diga"—, for example:

  • yo estoy estudiando / yo sí estoy estudiando
  • ella resolvió el problema / ella misma resolvió el problema
  • el niño dijo que él no había roto el jarrón / el niño juró que él [...]
  • él no es estudioso / estudioso, así que uno diga "estudioso", no, no lo es

Is that 'sí' in the sense of 'indeed'?

I knew the 'mismo' in 'ahora mismo' was idiomatically translated as the 'right' in 'right now' but that's clearly not how it's being used in your example. [Looks it up in dictionary]. This is the 'she herself' version isn't it? So it's literally 'She solved the problem herself' to emphasise that she was the one that solved it? That makes sense.

Again, thank you.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Emphasis

Post by gmads »

Jimbo wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:02 am

All I can say is, this makes me wonder why pretty much all sentence discussions for Tree 1 were filled with variations of 'Subject pronouns are usually dropped but you can use them to add emphasis', if it doesn't actually make any difference.

If you take a look at the Los pronombres personales en español page, you will see different reasons for the subject pronoun to be used, none of which is to transmit emphasis.

The first example presents a very simple narrative, therefore, the pronouns just need to be there:

  • Yo tengo novia. Ella es muy simpática y a mí me gusta mucho [...] pero ella no las puede dejar de escuchar

Further down the page, after the text, "Sin embargo, los pronombres personales sí aparecen expresos en la oración en los siguientes casos," several possibilities are listed:

  • to direct the listener's attention to the identity of the subject
  • to answer questions that seek to identify the subject of an action
  • in a comparison, after the particle that
  • in front of some words like: same, also, neither

Regardless of those cases, it all depends on context, tone, and what one wants to transmit.

-- Ya casi es la hora de la comida (it is almost time to eat)
-- Yo no tengo hambre todavía, ¿y tú? (I am not hungry yet, what about you?)

If there is some emphasis in the answer given, it would be a very subtle one. I would say that the "yo" is present to flow or connect, so to speak, with the "tú."

-- ¿quién tiene hambre? (who is hungry?)
-- yo no tengo hambre (I'm not hungry —answers one of the children)
-- yo sí (I am —answers the other one)

The answer of the first child does transmit some emphasis.

Jimbo wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:02 am
gmads wrote:

I'd say that emphasis is usually expressed by adding some particular words —like "sí"

Is that 'sí' in the sense of 'indeed'?

I'd say that is more like the emphatic "do," as in: "she did called you yesterday, but you weren't home," for example.

Jimbo wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:02 am
gmads wrote:

or "mismo"

I knew the 'mismo' in 'ahora mismo' was idiomatically translated as the 'right' in 'right now' but that's clearly not how it's being used in your example. [Looks it up in dictionary]. This is the 'she herself' version isn't it? So it's literally 'She solved the problem herself' to emphasise that she was the one that solved it? That makes sense.

Again, thank you.

Indeed, that is the meaning and usage of "mismo."

You are welcome!

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Jimbo

Re: Emphasis

Post by Jimbo »

This discussion makes we think about something else to do with emphasis. So there are certain words in English that, translated literally, would be stupidly easy to translate into Spanish - 'thou' into 'tú', 'thee' into 'te', 'yon' into 'aquel (or variations thereof, when 'aquel' is a pronoun)', 'yonder' into 'a allí/a allá' (when 'yonder' is an adverb) or 'aquel' (when they're adjectives) etc. The problem is, these are all archaic or at least anachronistic words in English, and thus their use in a modern work is nuanced or emphatic by default. Which makes me wonder how on Earth anyone would translate them. Especially since the idea they'd transmit wouldn't be so obvious.

Anyway…

gmads wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:07 am
Jimbo wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:02 am

All I can say is, this makes me wonder why pretty much all sentence discussions for Tree 1 were filled with variations of 'Subject pronouns are usually dropped but you can use them to add emphasis', if it doesn't actually make any difference.

If you take a look at the Los pronombres personales en español page, you will see different reasons for the subject pronoun to be used, none of which is to transmit emphasis.

The first example presents a very simple narrative, therefore, the pronouns just need to be there:

  • Yo tengo novia. Ella es muy simpática y a mí me gusta mucho [...] pero ella no las puede dejar de escuchar

Right, so they're needed in narrative works. That's not much of surprise I suppose - certainly with speech tags it can be very easy to forget who's speaking if they're omitted enough times in quick succession.

Further down the page, after the text, "Sin embargo, los pronombres personales sí aparecen expresos en la oración en los siguientes casos," several possibilities are listed:

  • to direct the listener's attention to the identity of the subject
  • to answer questions that seek to identify the subject of an action
  • in a comparison, after the particle that
  • in front of some words like: same, also, neither

Regardless of those cases, it all depends on context, tone, and what one wants to transmit.

-- Ya casi es la hora de la comida (it is almost time to eat)
-- Yo no tengo hambre todavía, ¿y tú? (I am not hungry yet, what about you?)

If there is some emphasis in the answer given, it would be a very subtle one. I would say that the "yo" is present to flow or connect, so to speak, with the "tú."

OK, that makes sense.

-- ¿quién tiene hambre? (who is hungry?)
-- yo no tengo hambre (I'm not hungry —answers one of the children)
-- yo sí (I am —answers the other one)

The answer of the first child does transmit some emphasis.

Jimbo wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:02 am
gmads wrote:

I'd say that emphasis is usually expressed by adding some particular words —like "sí"

Is that 'sí' in the sense of 'indeed'?

I'd say that is more like the emphatic "do," as in: "she did called you yesterday, but you weren't home," for example.

Yeah, it works there, though (while I'm sure this was a typo) it should be "She did call you yesterday, but you weren't home" rather than "did called". Translating "Yo sí estoy estudiando" as "I do be studying" might not be the best idea though. Is that form used? Sometimes, yes. Is it considered good English? Not really. Maybe something like "I have been studying"?

Anyway, thank you again, much belated though it is.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Emphasis

Post by gmads »

Jimbo wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 12:48 am

Yeah, it works there, though (while I'm sure this was a typo) it should be "She did call you yesterday, but you weren't home" rather than "did called".

LOL! A distraction, more than a typo, hehe. Thanks!

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