Dear anyone,
Your duolingo forum registration isn't automaticaly transferred to duome forum so in order to join duome forums you need to register with your existing or any other username and email; in any case it's advised that you choose a new password for the forum.
~ Duome Team

This is ... (αυτός/αυτή/αυτό είναι) - concordance with noun gender?

Cifi

This is ... (αυτός/αυτή/αυτό είναι) - concordance with noun gender?

Post by Cifi »

Question 1: when used with feminine or masculine nouns that describe objects, would the neuter demonstrative pronoun αυτό be possible, or does it have to be the feminine/masculine? (I am asking because in Spanish the neutral pronoun "esto es un/una ..." would be possible in case the object is unknown, i.e. to answer the question ¿Qué es esto?)

And question 2: referring to people, one would very likely stay with the gender of the noun if it is feminine or masculine, but what if the noun is neuter, as in "this is a boy"? On Duolingo it was " αυτός είναι ένα αγόρι", thus masculine pronoun with neuter noun. Would " αυτό είναι ένα αγόρι" be possible here alternatively, or is this the only way to phrase it?

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

O.Zoe
Greece

Re: This is ... (αυτός/αυτή/αυτό είναι) - concordance with noun gender?

Post by O.Zoe »

Cifi wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:58 pm

Question 1: when used with feminine or masculine nouns that describe objects, would the neuter demonstrative pronoun αυτό be possible, or does it have to be the feminine/masculine? (I am asking because in Spanish the neutral pronoun "esto es un/una ..." would be possible in case the object is unknown, i.e. to answer the question ¿Qué es esto?)

When you want to ask "What is this?" about something unknown, you'll use the neuter gender; "Τι είναι αυτό;". That's because the neuter noun "πράγμα" (thing) is implied - "Τι είναι αυτό [το πράγμα];". So, the answer could be "Αυτό είναι...". However, it's very likely the demonstrative pronoun wouldn't be used at all since now we already know what we're talking about; the answer would simply be "Είναι...". In case the question is never asked and we want to say "This is...", the neuter gender could be used (at least in certain context), but the gender agreement always sounds better/more refined/more grammatically correct.

---

Cifi wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:58 pm

And question 2: referring to people, one would very likely stay with the gender of the noun if it is feminine or masculine, but what if the noun is neuter, as in "this is a boy"? On Duolingo it was " αυτός είναι ένα αγόρι", thus masculine pronoun with neuter noun. Would " αυτό είναι ένα αγόρι" be possible here alternatively, or is this the only way to phrase it?

To me, "Αυτό είναι ένα αγόρι" means "This is a boy", whereas "Αυτός είναι ένα αγόρι" means "He is a boy". Both are correct. The former refers to the grammatical gender of the noun; the latter refers to the biological sex of the person. Isn't it similar in German - "Das ist ein Mädchen" vs. "Sie ist ein Mädchen"?

🇬🇷 N :gb: C1 :de: B1 :it: A1

Cifi

Re: This is ... (αυτός/αυτή/αυτό είναι) - concordance with noun gender?

Post by Cifi »

O.Zoe wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:21 pm

To me, "Αυτό είναι ένα αγόρι" means "This is a boy", whereas "Αυτός είναι ένα αγόρι" means "He is a boy".

Thank you, [mention]O.Zoe[/mention].

This is exactly what I would have thought. Therefore I was surprised that Duolingo's translation of "Αυτός είναι ένα αγόρι" was "This is a boy".

O.Zoe wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:21 pm

Isn't it similar in German - "Das ist ein Mädchen" vs. "Sie ist ein Mädchen"?

Well, kind of, maybe? I can imagine to use any of "Es ist ein Mädchen", Das ist ein Mädchen" and "Sie ist ein Mädchen", but in different situations.

"Es ist ein Mädchen" I imagine to be said after birth (in times when parents didn't know their baby's gender in advance). "Das" or "sie" don't fit here in my opinion.

"Das ist ein Mädchen" would be pointing somewhere, e.g. to a picture in a book. It also could be said to express admiration or something similar: "das ist ein Mädchen!", omitting the adjective that would describe how she is (I imagine incredible).

"Sie ist ein Mädchen" could either contrast age instead of gender: "Sie ist (noch) ein Mädchen (und keine Frau)", though I would rather use "Kind" (child). Or you might say it to correct someone who thought your girl was a boy.

Last edited by Cifi on Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

Phil682961

Re: This is ... (αυτός/αυτή/αυτό είναι) - concordance with noun gender?

Post by Phil682961 »

Cifi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:07 pm

"Es ist ein Mädchen" I imagine to be said after birth (in times when parents didn't know their baby's gender in advance). "Das" or "sie" don't fit here in my opinion.

Like English too, "it's a girl". I'd say that in that situation, English "it" isn't actually a personal pronoun. "It" means something like "The thing that has just happened [is that a girl has been born]".

For example, "It's a girl! We love her so much already!" We have different pronouns because they refer to different things: "it" refers to a situation, and "her" refers to the actual baby.

Similarly:
"Who was that on the phone?"
"It was your brother. He invited us to a party."

Only "it" is correct there as the first pronoun, and only "he" is correct as the second one.

Does it work the same way in German?

(Sorry, this is off-topic really, just something that interests me and I happened to be thinking about recently.)

Cifi

Re: This is ... (αυτός/αυτή/αυτό είναι) - concordance with noun gender?

Post by Cifi »

Phil682961 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:31 pm
Cifi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:07 pm

"Es ist ein Mädchen" I imagine to be said after birth (in times when parents didn't know their baby's gender in advance). "Das" or "sie" don't fit here in my opinion.

Like English too, "it's a girl". I'd say that in that situation, English "it" isn't actually a personal pronoun. "It" means something like "The thing that has just happened [is that a girl has been born]".

For example, "It's a girl! We love her so much already!" We have different pronouns because they refer to different things: "it" refers to a situation, and "her" refers to the actual baby.

Similarly:
"Who was that on the phone?"
"It was your brother. He invited us to a party."

Only "it" is correct there as the first pronoun, and only "he" is correct as the second one.

Does it work the same way in German?

(Sorry, this is off-topic really, just something that interests me and I happened to be thinking about recently.)

Phil, it may be off-topic, but spot-on with respect to the usage in German.

To carry on the off-topic aspect, this reminds me of situations where English and German would use the impersonal pronoun "it" / "es", but in Spanish the sentence wouldn't work well impersonally: It made me nervous when ... (I remember it well because I had a hard time to understand why this should be me pongo nerviosa cuando ... rather than me pone nerviosa cuando ...)

And sorry, I don't know yet how this would be in Greek. Lots of things ahead to explore.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

Post Reply

Return to “Greek”