Dear anyone,
Your duolingo forum registration isn't automaticaly transferred to duome forum so in order to join duome forums you need to register with your existing or any other username and email; in any case it's advised that you choose a new password for the forum.
~ Duome Team

"se estar" Progressive Participle

Moderators: Stasia, xillegas

Daniel898701
United States of America

"se estar" Progressive Participle

Post by Daniel898701 »

I don't understand why this construction is used "se estar" when forming the progressive participle.

Bea y Lin se están registrando en un hotel muy bonito.
Lin señala un ratón que se está comiendo la galleta.

Is the "se" for emphasis or something else?
thnx

User avatar
EranBarLev
Israel

Re: "se estar" Progressive Participle

Post by EranBarLev »

The first one is the verb "registrarse", which is reflexive = "to register (oneself)". Without the "se" it would be "registrar" = "to register somebody else", and it would require a direct object - who are they registering? There are 2 ways to construct the progressive tense of a reflexive verb:

  • se están registrando - The reflexive pronoun "se" comes before the auxiliary verb "estar".
  • están registrandose - The reflexive pronoun "se" comes after the main verb as a suffix without a space.

In the second sentence it might be for emphasis, as the mouse obviously does not eat itself. :mouse: I think it can work without the "se", but I'm not sure.

🇮🇱N 🇬🇧C1 🇪🇸B2 🇵🇹B1 🇫🇷B1 🇸🇦A1 🇷🇺A1

User avatar
Julian_L.
Argentina

Re: "se estar" Progressive Participle

Post by Julian_L. »

EranBarLev wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:48 am

In the second sentence it might be for emphasis, as the mouse obviously does not eat itself. :mouse: I think it can work without the "se", but I'm not sure.

At least to me, the second sentence would sound strange without «se» because it says «la galleta». I would change it to «una galleta» in order to leave «se» out.

:argentina:N :it: Image

b05aplmun.ca
United States of America

Re: "se estar" Progressive Participle

Post by b05aplmun.ca »

EranBarLev wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:48 am

In the second sentence it might be for emphasis, as the mouse obviously does not eat itself. :mouse: I think it can work without the "se", but I'm not sure.

"Se" often changes the meaning of a word a bit. My understanding is that with "comer" it is a bit of an intensifier, changing the meaning to something like "to eat up." The sentence, would, I think, still work without the "se" (although note the reservations on this point on the part of Julian_L).

User avatar
gmads
Mexico

Re: "se estar" Progressive Participle

Post by gmads »

"Pronominal verbs" (along with others that behave in a similar fashion) make up a large and relatively complex topic, so I'll just get into some very simple aspects.

These verbs can be recognized because the infinitive always ends in "-se," and they are always conjugated with the clitic pronouns: me, te, se, nos, os/se, se:

  • yo me arrepiento
  • tú te arrepientes
  • ella se arrepiente
  • nosotros nos arrepentimos
  • vosotros os arrepentís/ustedes se arrepienten
  • ellos se arrepienten

Truly pronominal verbs, like "arrepentirse" (to regret) or "atreverse" (to dare), do not have a non-pronominal form: neither the verb "arrepentir" nor "atrever" exist. However, many regular verbs have a corresponding pronominal form, for example, both verbs, "ahogar" & "ahogarse" (to drown) exist. From the point of view regarding direct and indirect complements, pronominal verbs are intransitive because they do not accept a direct complement.

Along with pronominal verbs (both pronominal and strictly pronominal), there are others that look and are conjugated the same, but serve a different purpose: reflexive, reciprocal and dative. All these pronominal-like verbs derive from regular verbs, so the verb "vestirse" comes from the verb "vestir". These pronominal-like verbs maybe be used transitively or intransitively.

The following list briefly describes each type of verb.

  • Reflexive verbs: used when the action is done to oneself, for example "bañarse" (to take a shower). These verbs are transitive and can have an indirect complement.
  • Reciprocal verbs: used when the action is done reciprocally between two or more individual, for example "besarse" (to kiss). These verbs are transitive and can have an indirect complement.
  • Dative (or emphatic) verbs: used to denote a more personal level of involvement, for example "beberse" (to drink).
  • Pronominal verbs: a special kind of verbs; they may seem to denote a reflexive action, but they actually do not, for example "ahogarse" (to drown). These verbs are intransitive. Like the previous ones, these verbs have a non-pronominal corresponding form, for example "ahogar" (to drown).
  • Truly pronominal verbs: a special kind of verbs; they could also seem to denote a reflexive action, but they do not, for example, "fugarse" (to escape). These verbs are intransitive.

So, regarding the sentences of this thread:

  • Bea y Lin se están registrando en un hotel muy bonito. The verb "registrarse" is a pronominal verb, as Bea and Lin are not "registering themselves,"
  • Lin señala un ratón que se está comiendo la galleta. The verb "comerse" is a dative verb, as the mouse is not eating itself.

The following answer talks a little about the emphatic verb:
el perro nos come las plantas

------ edit
Just in case someone misses the referred link about the possessive or sympathetic dative mentioned at the previous thread:
"dativo posesivo/simpatético".


:hash:  ㆍespañol ㆍgramática

Last edited by gmads on Mon May 01, 2023 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

🦎  Imagination is the only weapon in the war with reality.  🦎
Antinomy - Imagination

🇲🇽 :us:  ·  :it: 🇧🇷  ·  :ru: 🇦🇪

User avatar
gmads
Mexico

Re: "se estar" Progressive Participle

Post by gmads »

One point to keep in mind regarding pronominal verbs is that their meaning can be similar to that of the verb from which they derive, or it can change radically.

For example, both the verbs "estacionar" and "estacionarse" mean basically the same: "dejar (usualmente un vehículo) en un sitio; permanecer en un lugar" ("to leave (usually a vehicle) at a site; to stay in a place").

  • No es conveniente estacionar el carro en una esquina.
  • El autobús se estacionó en la plaza principal.

Notice, however, in the following examples, how the meaning of the pronominal version differs from the regular one.

  • Abandonar: dejar un lugar o una persona o una idea.
    – no abandones a tus amigos cuando tengan problemas

  • Abandonarse: dejarse de preocupar de uno mismo, especialmente del aspecto físico.
    – él se abandonó tras separarse de su mujer

  • Llamar: decir el nombre de alguien en voz alta o hablarle a alguien por teléfono.
    – por favor llama a la secretaria

  • Llamarse: tener por nombre.
    – muchas mujeres católicas se llaman María

  • Poner: colocar algo en alguna parte.
    – pusieron los libros en el escritorio

  • Ponerse (a): empezar a hacer algo.
    – el niño se puso a estudiar sin que se lo pidieran


:hash:  ㆍespañol ㆍgramática

🦎  Imagination is the only weapon in the war with reality.  🦎
Antinomy - Imagination

🇲🇽 :us:  ·  :it: 🇧🇷  ·  :ru: 🇦🇪

Post Reply

Return to “Language”