[ARCHIVE] "C'est" vs "Il est" (singular) & "Ce sont" vs "Ils sont" (plural)

[Jenga218]

Originally posted by Remy

You have to use "c'est" when there is an article (une, un, le, la, or l'), a possessive (mon/ton/son, ma/ta/sa, notre/votre/leur) before the noun, or before a possessive pronoun (le nôtre/le vôtre/le leur/la nôtre/la vôtre/la leur).

• Ex: You have to say "C'est mon garçon. C'est le mien", NOT: "Il est mon garçon. Il est le mien."

• Note: you can use "Il est" before an adjective (ex: "Il est riche." = "He is rich."), before a noun of occupation with no article (ex: "Il est avocat." = "He is a lawyer."), or before an adverb (ex: "Il est tard." = "It is late.").

• The same rules apply for the feminine singular pronoun "elle" (except for the adverb case).

You have to use "ce sont" when there is an article (des or les), a possessive (mes/tes/ses, nos/vos/leurs) before the noun, or before a possessive pronoun (les nôtres/les vôtres/les leurs).

• ex: You have to say "Ce sont nos garçons. Ce sont les nôtres", NOT: "Ils sont nos garçons. Ils sont les nôtres."

• Note: you can use "Ils sont" before an adjective (ex: "Ils sont riches." = "They are rich."), or before a noun of occupation with no article (ex: "Ils sont avocats." = "They are lawyers.").

• The same rules apply for the feminine plural pronoun "elles".

[Jenga218]

Same basic info but sites you can bookmark for easy reference:

http://www.frenchtoday.com/blog/cest-versus-il-elle-est (I printed the 1 page PDF)

http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa032500.htm

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Just to be clear, we can substitute "c'est avocat" → "il est avocat"?

Also I think that the section of the course that needs most attention is probably the part dealing with prepositions. The one's I've seen seen the most are arguments over :

• À, au;

• aux vs en;

• dans vs sur

• en vs dans vs sur; and

• pour vs par vs à.

To name a few.

"C'est un avocat." = "Il est avocat."

I thought as much, but a Google search uncovered 3 million instances of a direct quote "c'est avocat", and 23 million instances of "c'est professeur". So a lot of L1/L2 speakers must make this mistake.

Good to know!

I think what Remy was saying was that you need the article "un" before "avocat" in "C'est un avocat". You can't just say "C'est avocat", and you can't just say "C'est professeur". You can say "C'est un avocat" and "C'est le professeur", and you can say "Il est avocat" and "Il est professeur". Refer to the original post. In short, you need a determiner before the noun when using "ce + être". But note that there are (a few) exceptions, such as "C'est mercredi" and "C'est Paris".

Also read this: https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/cest-vs-il-est/

Just a thought... might it be that many of those instances of « c'est professeur » are cases where "professeur" is used as a title, to be immediately followed by the professor's name?

No, you can't say "C'est professeur Dubois". You should say: "C'est le professeur Dubois".

Actually, you don't discuss proper names, but the new section to learn the difference between "c'est" and "il est"/"elle est" seems to put proper names after "c'est". Could you add examples to the top and people would really like an example of that in the Tips and Notes for that section. They have, for example, in the lesson "C'est Bruno." which they accept "He is Bruno." for it but not "It's Bruno." or "That's Bruno." So perhaps, "C'est Remy." or "C'est Aline." Names are handled so differently in English, for instance, we would capitalize "Professor Dubois" and it would become part of his name.

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Remy,

I was following this advice as a guide when I was doing an exercise in the English from French tree. I was asked to translate "They are a couple" and, because of the indefinite article, I wrote "Ce sont un couple" and it was wrong - I should have written "Ils sont un couple". Does this follow that the rule for "C'est" (ie when there is an article such as un, une, la, le, l') doesn't appy to "Ce sont"? And what about the plural "les"? Does one say "Ce sont les étudiants" or "Ils sont les étudinats".

Merci pour ton aide

I think it's ils sont en couple

en couple means in a relationship

as en is not a determiner (its a preposition or pronoun) then it cannot be ce sont

as for your other question, it is ce sont les étudiants - they are the students

you also have

ce sont des étudiants / ils sont étudiants - they are students

As an aside: Here is a situation where something applies to c'est but not to ce sont

The general rules for using c'est and ce sont are:

c'est + determiner + noun phrase

ce sont + determiner + noun phrase

There are exceptions. For example: to make a comment about something or convey a general idea you can use the construction

c’est + adjective masculine singular

but you cannot use ce sont + adjective

examples

le français c'est fantastique - French is fantastic

j'étudie le français, c'est intéressant - I am studying French, it is interesting

c'est incroyable - it is incredible

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"The same rules apply for the feminine singular pronoun "elle" (except for the adverb case)." - what do you mean by "except for the adverb case"?

You cannot say "Elle est tard"

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I wrote a short article on it if it helps: http://spanishplus.tripod.com/french/Co ... #CestIlest

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What about when you are presenting or pointing out someone? Can you say "Il est Pierre." Or do you have to say "C'est Pierre." Just got done with a lesson and I always thought when using "c'est", it basically was "This is or that is." So when you want to say "He is Pierre," wouldn't both work? (i.e. "Il est Pierre" and "C'est Pierre")

No, proper names come after “c’est...” and it can be translated as “ He is Pierre.” https://www.thoughtco.com/french-expres ... st-4083779

You can also say “Here is...” and “There is...” with « Voici... » and « Voilà... ». https://www.thoughtco.com/voila-vocabulary-1371436

[Jenga218]

Originally posted: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/43941429

No - "C'est" and "Il est" are not interchangeable. Their usage is determined by what comes after "est".

You use "il est" when it's followed by:

• An adjective describing "it", where "it" is a person or thing. E.g. "Il est fatigué" = "He/It is tired."

• An unmodified adverb. E.g. "Il est tard" = "It is late."

• An unmodified noun. The most common case of this is when you're talking about someone's profession, e.g. "Il est avocat" = "He is a lawyer."

• A prepositional phrase. E.g. "Il est dans la chambre" = "He/It is in the room."

• A time of day. E.g. "Il est dix heures" = "It is ten o'clock."

You use "c'est" when it's followed by:

• An adjective describing "it", where "it" means the general situation. E.g. "C'est merveilleux" = "It's wonderful." The exception is with weather, where

• you use "il fait" or "il" + a weather verb and not "c'est".

• A modified adverb. E.g. "C'est trop tard" = "It is too late."

• A modified noun. Note that even just having an article counts as being modified. E.g. "C'est un bon avocat" = "He is a good lawyer", "C'est une pomme" = "It is an apple." This is the case that applies in this particular exercise.

• A proper name or stressed pronoun. E.g. "C'est Marc" = "It's Marc", "C'est moi" = "It's me."

• Dates and days of the week. E.g. "C'est le 10 janvier" = "It's January 10th", "C'est mardi" = "It's Tuesday."

[Jenga218]

Originally posted by Sitesurf

A gallicism is a phrase or grammatical construction peculiar to the French language.

C'est or Il est?

When describing people and things with a noun after être in French, you usually can't use the personal subject pronoun like il, elle, ils, and elles. Instead, you must use the indefinite pronoun ce, which can also mean "this" or "that". Note that ce is invariable, so it can never be ces sont.

	Indefinite Subject Pronoun	Personal Subject Pronoun
Singular	c'est	il/elle est
Plural	ce sont	ils/elles sont

These pronouns aren't interchangeable. The basic rule is that you must use ce when être is followed by any determiner—for instance, an article or a possessive adjective. Note that c'est should be used for singulars and ce sont should be used for plurals.

• C'est un homme. — He's a man. / This is a man. / That is a man.
  

• Ce sont des chats. — They're cats. / These are cats. / Those are cats.
  

• C'est la fille. — She is the girl. / This is the girl. / That is the girl.
  

• Ce sont les femmes. — They are the women. / These are the women. / Those are the women.

If an adjective, adverb, or both appear after être, then use the personal pronoun.

• Elle est belle. — She is beautiful. (Or "It is beautiful.")
  

• Il est très fort. — He is very strong. (Or "It is very strong.")

As you know, nouns generally need determiners, but one important exception is that professions can act as adjectives after être and devenir (“to become”). This is optional; you can also choose to treat them as nouns.

• He is a doctor. — Il est médecin. / C'est un médecin.

However, c'est should be used when using an adjective to make a general comment about (but not describe) a thing or situation. In this case, use the masculine singular form of the adjective.

• C'est normal ? — Is this normal?
  

• Non, c'est étrange. — No, this is strange.

[Saperlipopette!]

C'est vs. Il est

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[MoniqueMaRie]

Since I regularly ask myself the question again: when to use c'est instead of il/elle est, I have saved a screenshot of the following short answer by sitesurf.

It reads as follows:

"The real rule of thumb is:
If "il/elle est" is followed by a determiner, the subject changes to "c'" and in the plural "ils/elles sont" become "ce sont".

Determiners are:

• articles: un, une, des, le, la, les

• possessive adjectives: mon, ton, son, ma, ta, sa, notre, votre, leur, mes, tes, ses, nos, vos, leurs

• demonstrative adjectives: ce, cet, cette, ces

• indefinite adjectives: certains, quelques, plusieurs

• numbers: un, deux, trois....

"