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Genesis 1:1 בראשית

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Corinnebelle

Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Recording

I am curious about how the Hebrew words fit together and also how they describe things in more ways than one English word can convey. Feel free to share your thoughts about the following questions.

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית is a word that is not used many times in the Bible, I haven't learnt too much about it yet, but apparently "in the beginning" isn't the only way it can be translated.

BBE "At the first God made the heaven and the earth."

CEB When God began to create the heavens and the earth—

What does ברא in this verse mean? How does it describe how the world was created? What is interesting is the next verse says the earth was without shape, and one meaning of ברא is to shape.

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

Okay I don't know if this is helpful, mostly because I am not a student of Hebrew, but here is a link that does a bible translation of the Hebrew to English:
https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-1.htm

So it says in English: In the beginning created G-d, the heavens and the earth
sorry but this may read oddly because I did a cut and paste and I really don't know Hebrew
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
bə-rê-šîṯ bā-rā ’ĕ-lō-hîm; ’êṯ haš-šā-ma-yim wə-’êṯ hā-’ā-reṣ.

I am not sure if this will help but the 2nd word which is ba ra means created, to form and it may imply from nothing.
Most of the commentaries I have read make note that beginning doesn't imply a start it just means it was first. They go on to say that G-d is the creator of it and formed it, the "it" being the heavens and earth.

This first verse of the OT can be unpacked for days, so it's one of those verses that commentaries love to write on. Biblehub.com is a great resource if you want to drill down on a verse. :)

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Shamir
Israel

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Shamir »

Shalom!
I don’t know if you ever received a reply to this question, though a year has passed. First, בראשית and ברא are word plays. If you look at the word בראשית, you can see that ברא appears in the word. ברא means to “create from nothing” or from an unknown substance that is not familiar to humans. The term ברא is only used to describe Gods creative power and it is never used for humans. Second, translation tend to manipulate the text for stylistic purposes so they can be unrealible when trying to piece back the Hebrew.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

Shamir wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:45 am

Shalom!
I don’t know if you ever received a reply to this question, though a year has passed. First, בראשית and ברא are word plays. If you look at the word בראשית, you can see that ברא appears in the word. ברא means to “create from nothing” or from an unknown substance that is not familiar to humans. The term ברא is only used to describe Gods creative power and it is never used for humans. Second, translation tend to manipulate the text for stylistic purposes so they can be unrealible when trying to piece back the Hebrew.

Todah for your reply!

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

https://www.calledoutbelievers.org/bere ... -of-bible/

Bar is actually in the Hebrew writings in Proverbs and Psalms.

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JudieLC
United States of America

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by JudieLC »

This is Christian point of view. Just saying. Jews do not read Bereshit this way.

Bar means son in Aramaic, not in Hebrew, by the way.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

JudieLC wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:00 am

This is Christian point of view. Just saying. Jews do not read Bereshit this way.

Bar means son in Aramaic, not in Hebrew, by the way.

How do Jews understand Bereshit? I'm open to learning from both religions.

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JudieLC
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by JudieLC »

Jewish learning is a dialog among scholars and across generations. Many discussions, many opinions.

Here's a fairly basic commentary on Parshat Bereshit, Geneisi 1:1- 6:8 https://www.myjewishlearning.com/articl ... -like-god/

Here are some more commentaries:
https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/356506?lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/518706?lang=bi
https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_ ... tshell.htm
https://www.chabad.org/parshah/in-depth ... -Depth.htm

There are lots more to be found.

The video is trying to draw a meaning from Bereshit 1:1 that isn't intended in the original text. Rabbis over the centuries have had many discussions about Parshat Bereshit but none have drawn that meaning from it.

Last edited by JudieLC on Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shamir
Israel

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Shamir »

One issue with Hebrew is that knowing just a little is not enough to really teach anyone. That video is not good. There are so many aspects to the language but you have to study and be able to read the Bible in Hebrew before you can even begin to teach someone else. The other issue is that if it sounds good people believe it even it it’s not true. Most people don’t know what real study is even and find Hebrew to be more of cutesy lil addition than something that is needed. A note on bible translations. Accuracy probably isn’t always the main goal as the “message bible” demonstrates. It terrible and should just be tossed into the fire place. It’s completely useless yet I see so many reading and teaching from it as if it’s the golden child of bibles. Translations also do things for stylistic reasons that end up robbing the text of its meaning but most people are none the wiser bc they do not know that language. There are many verse that don’t say what one may have been taught or the verse end up being an idiom. Bible like the amplified are useless as well bc context is what gives Hebrew words meaning. One can’t take one word and say it means such and such when in reality it might have the opposite meaning. The amplified gives a bunch of definitions but it’s not possible to know which definition fits where or if it even fits at all! English’s translations won’t help anyone translate of understand the Bible better. If one has the 26 translation bible but does not know the language of the text then one essentially has nothing.

Shamir
Israel

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Shamir »

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

I tried looking for more on bereshit myself. I did find a Jewish reference to it referring to the Aramaic bracha but the text was about kabbalah which is what I wasn't into. I found another site similar to the video which I have put with the video. I like the New Jewish Publication Old Testament mentioned in one of the links @JudieLC linked here. I haven't finished all the links, been reading the Bible. In Genesis chapter 2 in the KJV it talks about an helpmeet, but this version uses counterpart. When I looked at the Hebrew above the English I see the word נגדו and I thought נגד means against so counterpart would be a valid translation for this.

https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/356506?l ... &aliyot2=0

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

@JudieLC The last link you have is about the word bereshit. I quote from Rashi, very interesting:

The Torah’s first word, bereishit, is an acronym for beit reishit—“two firsts” (the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet, beit, stands for the number two). This is to say that the world was created for the sake of two things called “first” (reishit)—the Torah (Proverbs 8:22) and the people of Israel (Jeremiah 2:3).

(Rashi; Midrash Rabbah)

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/in-depth ... -Depth.htm

I also found that bar is in fact a Hebrew word for son although very rare as well as being in Aramaic. One example is in Mishlei (Proverbs) 31:2. The letters בר cover several words some which mean other things as well.

Maybe if I look at the Tanach from JPS that was in the links it has some commentaries, I will find more. I've been too busy reading it to dig that deep.

@Shamir What do think of the above quote and also the link I put below the video. Do they make sense to you? I don't think I'll attain to your educational level of Hebrew understanding, but I've got to start somewhere.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

How many sons do you think Adam had? How many daughters? He had at least five sons probably more and he must of had quite a few daughters as well. After being a wander in the Earth Cain had a son, no doubt from one of his sisters and built a city, it must of taken quite a few people to build a city. When you live a long time, you could have hundreds of children?

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JudieLC
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by JudieLC »

The Bible never puts a number on how many sons and daughters Adam had. I'm not sure where you got the five sons from cause the Tanach doesn't say as far as I know. There's a listing of descendants starting in Bereshit 4-6.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

JudieLC wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:57 pm

The Bible never puts a number on how many sons and daughters Adam had. I'm not sure where you got the five sons from cause the Tanach doesn't say as far as I know. There's a listing of descendants starting in Bereshit 4-6.

First son Cain, second son Abel, third son Seth, after Seth he had sons and daughters therefore he had at least 5 because sons is plural and he already had 3. Genesis 5:5

וַיִּֽהְי֣וּ יְמֵי־אָדָ֗ם אַֽחֲרֵי֙ הוֹלִיד֣וֹ אֶת־שֵׁ֔ת שְׁמֹנֶ֥ה מֵאֹ֖ת שָׁנָ֑ה וַיּ֥וֹלֶד בָּנִ֖ים וּבָנֽוֹת׃
After the birth of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters.

https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/356506?l ... &aliyot2=0

I'd never thought of it before.

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lrai
United States of America

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

Corinnebelle:

I am confused how you got to 5 sons when you can only name 3?? Why 5, does that have a special meaning to you? Yes, it is true that the bible tells us that Adam had sons (plural) and daughters but it gives us NO numbers on how many of each other than to name the 3 sons. I think that is the point Judie was making. Keep in mind we can imagine many things but we still need to stick to the text that we are given.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

@lrai What I'm saying is it's at least five, it's probably a lot more than that. I'm not saying it was only 5, just that he had at least five from what I'm reading. Sons plural after the third son has to be at least two unless in Hebrew two isn't plural. 2+ sons unnamed plus 3 named sons makes 5+.

After the birth of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters

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lrai
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

Okay I can see what you mean now, but to be honest it would be hard to know just how many and I guess from my viewpoint, it really doesn't matter to me. Genesis has a lot of this one begot that one etc. While genealogy can be useful for some things I am just not that inclined to spend much time on it. I am fine with they had kids and now let's move on...LOL

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JudieLC
United States of America

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by JudieLC »

I see what you mean, also, @Corinnebelle , but "sons and daughters" doesn't mean additional sons to the ones already mentioned in the text. According to my daughter the cantor, it's just the Torah's formulaic way of recapping what was said previously. So that would mean that Adam had three sons. Since it doesn't mention how many daughters he had, that's an unknown. (Then again, the Torah rarely mentions daughters in general.)

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

JudieLC wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:00 pm

I see what you mean, also, @Corinnebelle , but "sons and daughters" doesn't mean additional sons to the ones already mentioned in the text. According to my daughter the cantor, it's just the Torah's formulaic way of recapping what was said previously. So that would mean that Adam had three sons. Since it doesn't mention how many daughters he had, that's an unknown. (Then again, the Torah rarely mentions daughters in general.)

Interesting idea that "after" doesn't mean "after" in the sentence, but then I'm not a Hebrew expert. It says about the same thing for all the descendants of Adam, after the first son they begat sons and daughters. Wonder if they ever begat a daughter first? Or back then sons came first every time? Only the daughters afterwards are mentioned! Seeing as begatting sons for all his descendants would include not just the son being born since they've only had one so far, it would seem that it can include children born after the first one?

After the birth of Noah, Lamech lived 595 years and begot sons and daughters.

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lrai
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

Corinnebelle:

I am fairly sure daughters were born first, but in recording births at that time only sons mattered, hence you record them. However, going back to the lineage of Christ you see a few women are mentioned which signifies a change in "our" status, LOL

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

@lrai I always thought those people sometimes took a long time to have there first kid. Now I'm thinking that was the first boy! How many girls did they have first? But it's written like they had a boy first.

When Lamech had lived 182 years, he begot a son.

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lrai
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

Corinnebelle:

Think of it this way, if all they had were boys, where did those boys come from if it implies a shortage of girls?? If you want a good example of that in real life, look at China and you can see the outcome of a one child policy where boys matter and girls really don't. That didn't go too well in the long run.

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JudieLC
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by JudieLC »

Corinnebelle wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:23 pm
JudieLC wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:00 pm

I see what you mean, also, @Corinnebelle , but "sons and daughters" doesn't mean additional sons to the ones already mentioned in the text. According to my daughter the cantor, it's just the Torah's formulaic way of recapping what was said previously. So that would mean that Adam had three sons. Since it doesn't mention how many daughters he had, that's an unknown. (Then again, the Torah rarely mentions daughters in general.)

Interesting idea that "after" doesn't mean "after" in the sentence, but then I'm not a Hebrew expert. It says about the same thing for all the descendants of Adam, after the first son they begat sons and daughters. Wonder if they ever begat a daughter first? Or back then sons came first every time? Only the daughters afterwards are mentioned! Seeing as begatting sons for all his descendants would include not just the son being born since they've only had one so far, it would seem that it can include children born after the first one?

After the birth of Noah, Lamech lived 595 years and begot sons and daughters.

Yes, because that's the Torah's formulaic way of saying things. It doesn't mean additional sons and daughters.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

lrai wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 12:04 am

Corinnebelle:

I am fairly sure daughters were born first, but in recording births at that time only sons mattered, hence you record them. However, going back to the lineage of Christ you see a few women are mentioned which signifies a change in "our" status, LOL

I always thought they were special women! You'll see the occasional women mentioned in genealogies in the Old Testament too. Why they were mentioned, I don't know, but it's interesting. Always the mother of a king is mentioned in the line of Judah. The wives of the patriarchs are mentioned too. Also the grandmother of Rebekah.

Last edited by Corinnebelle on Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected error

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

Rebekah came up from the spring

Image

It wasn't as simple as dragging up some buckets of water from the well and pouring them in the trough next door for the camels. You had to carry each jar up from the spring. Truly a welcoming young lady.

According to:
וְהַֽנַּעֲרָ֗ טֹבַ֤ת מַרְאֶה֙ מְאֹ֔ד בְּתוּלָ֕ה וְאִ֖ישׁ לֹ֣א יְדָעָ֑הּ וַתֵּ֣רֶד הָעַ֔יְנָה וַתְּמַלֵּ֥א כַדָּ֖הּ וַתָּֽעַל׃
The maiden was very beautiful—[and] a virgin, no man having known her. She went down to the spring, filled her jar, and came up.

Two verses later it says:

וַתְּמַהֵ֗ר וַתְּעַ֤ר כַּדָּהּ֙ אֶל־הַשֹּׁ֔קֶת וַתָּ֥רׇץ ע֛וֹד אֶֽל־הַבְּאֵ֖ר לִשְׁאֹ֑ב וַתִּשְׁאַ֖ב לְכׇל־גְּמַלָּֽיו׃
Quickly emptying her jar into the trough, she ran back to the well to draw, and she drew for all his camels.

So what did it actually look like?

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lrai
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

My guess is it looked more like what we see in THE Chosen than the photo you have here. There would have been a well and nearby there would have been a place for watering the herds. That is my guess. While this photo is lovely I am fairly sure it didn't look like this, not in the desert.

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

@lrai Does the chosen have the scene with Rebekah at the well? It does look a little lush for the country! I think Haran wouldn't exactly have been desert. It is classed as fertile plain, but definitely pastureland, so not particularly green, but not completely barren.

Maybe this has the explanation:

Archaeological findings have shown us that ancient wells were often large, with a flight of stairs that led down to the cool, spring water. Scripture states that Rebekah “went down to the spring…and came up,” which lines up with the record of Mesopotamian wells such as the pool of Gibeon, pictured above. Rebekah made this trip several times in order to bring water for Abraham’s servant and his camels (see Genesis 24:20).

Image

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lrai
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Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by lrai »

There is an episode where they show Jacob's well, and in that episode Jesus meets the Samaritan woman, I believe it's at the end of season 2

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Corinnebelle

Re: Genesis 1:1 בראשית

Post by Corinnebelle »

lrai wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:59 pm

There is an episode where they show Jacob's well, and in that episode Jesus meets the Samaritan woman, I believe it's at the end of season 2

That's a well in Palestine. This is in Haran.

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