所谓的世界上最容易学的语言排名，其实太主观了

[ararat-tempest]

from the post of www.o-o.zone, where I originally posted...... I'm too lazy to translate, just go ahead and use google translate, go raibh maith agat.

https://www.toutiao.com/article/7212875188784972343
https://www.kaoshibaike.com/494692247.html

人类的一个本质是复读机，但是另一个本质是比较。凡事都要比较一下，凡事都要排个名，仿佛这对于自己精神或肉体有什么改观一样，I don't get it, but I somehow understand.
以前在youtube上看过一些这种语言学习难度排名的视频，今天午休偶然看到了汉语文章中关于这个的排名，不禁让我挠头......

chatgpt排名的这个，很明显是基于印欧语系为母语的人说的，而且实际学过德语的人都知道这语言让人多么头疼！词汇丰富不代表学习简单，the same goes English。荷兰语我学了快1年了，虽然有所谓的V2规则，但是有时候你还是会在使用中放错副词在句子的位置，尽管实际说的时候，当地人可能会理解，但心理没准还是会稍微鄙视你一下呢23333 挪威语“词汇量相对较小”的观点我不知道从何而来，但挪威文学中出现的许多抽象名词与英语相比还是有些“不够直白”但回想起来让人觉得“意味深长”。

考试百科的这个，Frisian有多个分支，我不知道这里说的是哪个，这几个分支的关系不是方言那么简单，可以算作是相对独立的了，而且互相之间mutual intelligibility其实不是很高，不过和英语关系紧密是真的。英语并不是个简单易学的语言，至少它不像马来语、印尼语那么phonetic，即一个字母或diphthong、triphthong之类的对应一个发音，看到生词你还是需要查词典去看准确读音。“大多数语言学家把世界语列为最容易学习的语言”这点没问题，Esperanto的确是最容易学习的语言，但只是“之一”，实际上有比世界语还好学的，但是4小时就学会是完全不可能的，因为你还是需要背单词，外加它有上万的词汇量，所谓的“学会了”是指水平到了C2？四小时顶多让你水平到A2，这还是理想情况。纠正下，那个是“南非荷兰语”而不是“南非语”，南非有11个官方语言呢，从难度上属于比荷兰语简单，比英语稍难，所以说它简单的一定是匈牙利语学多了。另外，认为法语简单的童鞋可以从100楼跳下去了，你是天才，再见。

那么问题来了，到底什么让语言简单易学？通过我在多年来对10+门语言的非系统化学习和每天浏览语法书，我觉得至少要有个关键因素——语法简单到非常合乎逻辑，只需要背单词就行了。只凭这一点，就可以抛开大多数人的投票了，或者说...
自然语言里根本就没有好学的！包括我说简单的马来语/印尼语，因为它们的语法也是在细节上越学越难的，如那一大堆表示不同作用和意义前缀和后缀......但至少没有：格系统（Ugric语言中枪）、奇怪的首辅音变形（Celtic语言中枪）、复杂的名词变复数（威尔士语、罗马尼亚语等中枪）、非phonetic（英语等大多数语言中枪）、非使用拉丁字母（无数语言中枪）、奇怪的量词（汉语、越南语、日语等中枪）、奇怪的数词（威尔士语再中枪，还有那些以20甚至50为基础的）、非主谓宾（大多数Oceanic语言中枪）、连语法书都没法完全说明白只能接近凭感觉体会的介词或助词（英语和法语再中枪）等...

因此，最简单的语言我投票给Lingua Franca Nova、Interlingue Occidental、Interlingua、Globasa，以及有名的Toki Pona，至少上述问题，这些人造语言都没有，还消除了世界语中的复杂因素（比如宾格要在名词后加n这种...），近乎可以做到语法入门后只需要背单词就行了。
但Toki Pona绝对不是最简单的，虽然它连词汇都很有限（核心词汇不到200），但构词上需要你绞尽脑汁一下，毕竟基础词汇有限，在表示一些基础词汇以外词的时候，你就得想怎么考虑了，这个在无形中耗费了你的时间去思考，而不能做到像其他语言一样脱口而出，最后只能提前想，和背单词一样了，这一点反而和Toki Pona的初衷背道而驰，只是单纯地把lexicon化为用少数核心单词组成的“词组”罢了......
Globasa存在和世界语同样的问题——什么都要，意思是它的词汇来源于太多非同语族、同语系的语言了，最后导致“四不像”或只能让少数speaker理解。
所以，Lingua Franca Nova、Interlingue Occidental、Interlingua这三个的理念还是不错的——只针对本土语言是罗曼语族的用户，即理解西法葡意等语言的speaker可以轻松记忆这三个语言的词汇；语法上还简化了本可以没必要有的元素（比如格系统），所以我个人推荐学这三个。或者，如果你懂俄语、乌克兰语、波兰语等那些斯拉夫语族语言的话，可以试试Interslavic，道理同上。
至于针对世界语的用户，我建议你学Ido——简化版的世界语。

总之，conlang总体上就是比自然语言简单易学，这一点是毋庸置疑的，否则这些conlang就只是用在文艺作品中了。那么请问，Volapük你为什么要这么难呢？

[Meli578588]

That looks beautiful. Wish I could read it !

[ararat-tempest]

That looks beautiful. Wish I could read it !

haha, you're the very first friend who left a comment to my post, on both forum!
that o-o forum is rather new, it's more than like a place for me to say random stuffs which can't be suitable for here.

[McGonnagle]

「簡單的語言」這個概念其實很主觀，主要還是取決於學習者的背景和學習目的。語言學習的難易度有很多因素，比如語法、詞彙、發音、文化背景和學習環境等等，這些都會影響學習過程。所以，很難說哪種語言就一定是最簡單的。

對我來說，沒有嚴格語法規則的語言學起來比較困難。像拉丁語這樣有明確語法規則的語言，對學習者來說會提供一個比較可預測、穩定的結構。當然，拉丁語作為死語，這也是它結構穩定的一個原因呢！（笑）　　

不過，當然我並不是說拉丁語簡單，它確實是一門具有挑戰性的語言。但我認為，拉丁語是值得投入努力學習的，因為它能帶來豐富的回報，且努力所獲得的收穫是其他語言難以比擬的。

[PtolemysXX]

I believe that in the first article you quoted (toutiao) the author asked gpt a question of the sort "what are the easiest languages to learn?" without specifying what your base is. It is not possible to answer such a question accurately so AI was forced to assume something and produced a list that does not make sense in general:

1. Spanish
2. French
3. German
4. Italian
5. Portuguese (I love this: "The grape country"
6. Dutch
7. Swedish
8. Norwegian
9. Danish
10. English

The answer will be completely different if you formulate the question more precisely. When I ask "what are the 10 easiest languages to learn for a Chinese speaker" here is what I get:

1. Japanese

   • Many similarities in writing: kanji in Japanese is derived directly from Chinese characters, making it easier to learn written forms and understand meanings.

   • Grammar and pronunciation are different, but the shared writing system makes Japanese more intuitive.

2. Korean

   • Although Hangul (Korean alphabet) differs from Chinese characters, there’s significant exposure through K-pop and dramas.

   • A large portion of Korean vocabulary (around 60%) has Chinese origins.

3. Thai

   • Thailand is a popular travel destination for Chinese people.

   • Pronunciation can be a challenge, but its straightforward syntax and Chinese loanwords make it easier to learn.

4. Vietnamese

   • Many shared loanwords from Chinese.

   • Historically, Chinese characters were used to write Vietnamese, aiding in recognizing some words.

5. English

   • Widespread in education, culture, and business.

   • While pronunciation can be difficult, its global prevalence helps with learning through media and education.

6. Mandarin (Standard Chinese in Simplified or Traditional Script)

   • For those in regions speaking dialects (e.g., Cantonese or Min), learning standard Mandarin (Putonghua) is relatively easy due to shared characters.

7. Cantonese

   • For those in mainland China who speak Mandarin, Cantonese is easier to learn because of shared characters and many similar words.

8. Spanish

   • Simple grammar and phonetics.

   • Increasing popularity of Spanish in China, especially for trade with Latin America.

9. Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia)

   • Intuitive grammar and no verb conjugation.

   • Many loanwords from Chinese due to historical migrations.

10. Malay

    • Similar to Indonesian, and easy for Chinese speakers.

    • Significant Chinese communities in Malaysia contribute to familiarity with the language.

The issue with chatGPT is that it has a very strong ego so it will always produce results even if it is garbage caused by lack of data. chatGPT does not ask clarifying questions (not yet...)

[McGonnagle]

5. Portuguese (I love this: "The grape country"

　　
It took me a second to understand what you were talking about..., while I was trying to think of the name in Latin. When I hear the country name '葡萄牙' , it's natural to immediately associate it with Portugal, so I've never really thought of grapes. It's a new discovery！

[ararat-tempest]

1. Portuguese (I love this: "The grape country"

　　
It took me a second to understand what you were talking about..., while I was trying to think of the name in Latin. When I hear the country name '葡萄牙' , it's natural to immediately associate it with Portugal, so I've never really thought of grapes. It's a new discovery！

but funnier in transliteration, The Grape Tooth lmao.
as for Spain, The Western Class Tooth hahaha.

[ararat-tempest]

[]Cantonese

• For those in mainland China who speak Mandarin, Cantonese is easier to learn because of shared characters and many similar words.

but Cantonese is as challenging as hell tbh! Zhuang is easier and only few people know this truth even in China.

[McGonnagle]

5. Portuguese (I love this: "The grape country"

　　
It took me a second to understand what you were talking about..., while I was trying to think of the name in Latin. When I hear the country name '葡萄牙' , it's natural to immediately associate it with Portugal, so I've never really thought of grapes. It's a new discovery！

but funnier in transliteration, The Grape Tooth lmao.
as for Spain, The Western Class Tooth hahaha.

Yes！

I actually looked into the translation of Greece "希臘" (Xi-la) years ago because I couldn’t quite figure out why it was translated that way. After some research, I found out it’s based on Cantonese pronunciation, He-lah, from Helen.
This is just my idea, though, the character "希" means "hope," and "臘" refers to festivals or offerings. And when I think of "hope" in Greek mythology, it immediately brings to mind the story of "Pandora's Box." As for festivals and offerings, they make me think of the gods of Greece. So, I really like this translation of "希臘" (Greece) — it has such a fitting connection to both Greek mythology and the ancient Greek world.

What I find particularly interesting is the translation of Egypt. The Chinese name "埃及" is pronounced "Āijí" in Mandarin, but in Cantonese, it's "Oi-gāp." While I don’t know how it’s pronounced in Arabic, it seems to be close to the Latin name of "Aegyptus," and the characters "埃及" evoke the image of "dust spreading" or "dust reaching", in Japanese, 埃が及ぶ (Hokori ga oyobu.) It makes me think of the desert sands flying in the wind and the towering Sphinx, which is fascinating.

But I wonder, is this just me, or does anyone else find this kind of imagery in the translations? 　　

We know Chinese transliterations are often not just translations; they really combine language, culture, and marketing strategy in a clever way, which takes a lot of skill. Watching TV commercials, I’m often impressed by how smart and creative they are.

Today, I realized that a lot of country names in Chinese come from Cantonese too. This makes sense because Cantonese speaking area has always been a major center for trade and diplomacy, and Cantonese became the commercial language. It's really interesting to see how the pronunciation of different country names is linked to some regions of China, and how learning about this gives you a glimpse into the history of trade and diplomacy. 　　

[ararat-tempest]

1. Portuguese (I love this: "The grape country"

　　
It took me a second to understand what you were talking about..., while I was trying to think of the name in Latin. When I hear the country name '葡萄牙' , it's natural to immediately associate it with Portugal, so I've never really thought of grapes. It's a new discovery！

but funnier in transliteration, The Grape Tooth lmao.
as for Spain, The Western Class Tooth hahaha.

Yes！

I actually looked into the translation of Greece "希臘" (Xi-la) years ago because I couldn’t quite figure out why it was translated that way. After some research, I found out it’s based on Cantonese pronunciation, He-lah, from Helen.
This is just my idea, though, the character "希" means "hope," and "臘" refers to festivals or offerings. And when I think of "hope" in Greek mythology, it immediately brings to mind the story of "Pandora's Box." As for festivals and offerings, they make me think of the gods of Greece. So, I really like this translation of "希臘" (Greece) — it has such a fitting connection to both Greek mythology and the ancient Greek world.

What I find particularly interesting is the translation of Egypt. The Chinese name "埃及" is pronounced "Āijí" in Mandarin, but in Cantonese, it's "Oi-gāp." While I don’t know how it’s pronounced in Arabic, it seems to be close to the Latin name of "Aegyptus," and the characters "埃及" evoke the image of "dust spreading" or "dust reaching", in Japanese, 埃が及ぶ (Hokori ga oyobu.) It makes me think of the desert sands flying in the wind and the towering Sphinx, which is fascinating.

But I wonder, is this just me, or does anyone else find this kind of imagery in the translations? 　　

We know Chinese transliterations are often not just translations; they really combine language, culture, and marketing strategy in a clever way, which takes a lot of skill. Watching TV commercials, I’m often impressed by how smart and creative they are.

Today, I realized that a lot of country names in Chinese come from Cantonese too. This makes sense because Cantonese speaking area has always been a major center for trade and diplomacy, and Cantonese became the commercial language. It's really interesting to see how the pronunciation of different country names is linked to some regions of China, and how learning about this gives you a glimpse into the history of trade and diplomacy. 　　

speaking of this phenomenon, I have no idea how Switzerland - 瑞士 related... if for entire transliteration, it'd be 斯威茨兰 which is similar to Swaziland aka Eswatini.

[McGonnagle]

speaking of this phenomenon, I have no idea how Switzerland - 瑞士 related...

We often take things for granted without thinking about them. But if you start thinking about it, it becomes really intriguing, doesn't it？I looked up Wiktionary and found that 瑞士 (Switzerland) also comes from southern dialects, like 'sui su' or 'sui si' in Hakka, and 'sui shir' or 'sui su' in Southern Min.　　

This is just my personal take, but the character 瑞, which symbolizes jade and good fortune, feels like it fits Switzerland perfectly. With its stability, neutrality, and peaceful nature, Switzerland seems like a symbol of good luck. Its clear lakes, lush meadows, and snow-covered mountains reflect the harmony and natural beauty 'Jade' (瑞) represents.

Also, 士 refers to noble, honest people, master which reminds me of Switzerland’s craftsmanship and dedication to quality, perfectly matching the spirit of 士.
　　

... if for entire transliteration, it'd be 斯威茨兰 which is similar to Swaziland aka Eswatini.

　　
Haha... Yes, we know In Chinese, unlike Japanese or Korean, there are limits to the sounds and syllable structure, so it's hard to translate foreign names exactly as they sound. When transliterating into Chinese, there's a balance or compromise between staying true to the original sound and making it easy to pronounce. But in a way, these challenges make the language's unique features even more interesting!