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Nos and Noswaith

AnomalousCowherd
Great Britain

Nos and Noswaith

Post by AnomalousCowherd »

Something that has come up since the update.

The sentence "I had a good salad for supper last Tuesday evening"

...can be correctly translated as "Ces i salad da i swper nos Fawrth diwetha"

...but "Ces i salad da i swper noswaith Fawrth diwetha" is marked as incorrect.

Are there circumstances where noswaith looks like it might be correct, but the correct word is explicitly nos, or is this just a little gremlin which crept in with the update?

PT7
Canada

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by PT7 »

I think (emphasis on think) that noswaith is used as a greeting as in Noswaith dda - good evening when greeting someone at night.

AnomalousCowherd
Great Britain

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by AnomalousCowherd »

Ooookay, so "noswaith dda" is translated as a unit, rather than being composed of smaller units which may be employed elsewhere? That would make sense, and there are plenty of other similar examples. I haven't seen any of my Welsh friends yet to ask them, but I hope to get a definitive answer next week.

User avatar
Siobhan688078
Wales

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by Siobhan688078 »

If you are looking for the translation of "night", the Welsh translation is "nos", which is assumed to be derived from the Latin "nox". It is a feminine noun with the most common plural form "nosweithiau" (you may also come across "nosau" as a plural)

In this way "nos da" would mean "good night", which you would say after leaving a party or a gathering, or when you had a chat with a neighbour or friends over the garden fence in the evening and you are retiring inside.

Another compound you may come across is "noson" as in "noson llawen" where it means "evening or night", in this case an evening get-together with singing and music, usually taking place in a pub or village hall etc.

"Noswaith" is usually only used as "noswaith dda" , a greeting, which means "good evening" and you use it when you join someone in the pub in the evening, or get some shopping from a late shop etc. The "waith" part of the word refers to "wythnos = week", which I always thought of as meaning "weekday evening" to help me remember it .

Hwyl 8-)

Last edited by Siobhan688078 on Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AnomalousCowherd
Great Britain

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by AnomalousCowherd »

Thank you, that is a really comprehensive and useful answer!

So is there a way of explicitly specifying, for example, "last Tuesday evening" as opposed to "last Tuesday night", or would it be something deduced from context?

User avatar
Siobhan688078
Wales

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by Siobhan688078 »

AnomalousCowherd wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:06 pm

Thank you, that is a really comprehensive and useful answer!

So is there a way of explicitly specifying, for example, "last Tuesday evening" as opposed to "last Tuesday night", or would it be something deduced from context?

Good question! I'm not sure. I'll ask my brilliant cymraeg neighbours as soon as I get a chance and will report back to you 8-)

Hwyl

AnomalousCowherd
Great Britain

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by AnomalousCowherd »

Diolch yn fawr!

I have a couple of excellent Welsh colleagues who have been immensely helpful and supportive of my journey. Unfortunately they are currently on holiday to the other side of the world. Unfortunately for me, that is. :lol:

AnomalousCowherd
Great Britain

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by AnomalousCowherd »

Ok ,so a chance phone call with another Welsh friend this evening has clarified things a bit. He is from Pembroke, so his opinion might not be applicable to the whole of Wales. (Not specifically because he is from Pembroke!)

He has only ever known noswaith to be used in the phrase noswaith dda. While you could use it in other contexts, it would be hyper-correct and sound very odd to any native speaker. Best to use prynhawn for any time up to sunset, and nos for any time after sunset, and let the precise meaning be clarified through context. He thinks that noswaith might be slightly more common in very old, formal Welsh, but certainly not in the last 100 years.

Elin_7-1
Wales

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by Elin_7-1 »

Siobhan688078 wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:30 pm

The "waith" part of the word refers to "wythnos = week", which I always thought of as meaning "weekday evening" to help me remember it .

Interesting. Do you have a reference for this? I always thought that the "waith" part meant time/occurrence from gwaith, as in unwaith (once or one time), dwywaith (twice or two times), tair gwaith (thrice or three times) and gweithiau (sometime(s)), therefore noswaith = nighttime/evening-time in general.

There are also the words heno and neithiwr for this evening and last evening

The word noson is also used with numbers. So if you did something for three evenings/night, you would say tair noson, not tair nos.

rmcode
Wales

Re: Nos and Noswaith

Post by rmcode »

The 'waith' in noswaith comes from the feminine noun 'gwaith' = time,occasion..... thus noswaith = time of darkness/time of nightness.

The noun gwaith = work is a masculine noun.

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