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What are the rules to skip prepositions?

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jlbernardes11
Brazil

What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by jlbernardes11 »

Hey guys, how are you doing? hope it's well.
I'm Portuguese native, and in my language, the correct sentence for:
"Max pitched Alice the baseball"
will be something like:
"Max pitched TO Alice the baseball".

Why we skip this kind of preposition in the English Language and what are the rules for that?
I get very confused about that.

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Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

@jlbernardes11

Hi,

can you maybe give 1-2 or 3 PT sentence examples how that phrase can look like?

"Max pitched TO Alice the baseball." sounds horrible in English :-)

Working EN alternative:
"Max pitched the baseball to Alice".

Well ok, as a non-native English speaker I'm not 100% sure about that specific verb "to pitch / pitched" and required prepositions or order. Sometimes there are differences.

Auto translated to PT (Google translate):
"Max lançou a bola de beisebol para Alice"

For both the two valid EN sentences (incl my 2nd alternative) this is the end result.

Your specific EN example equals:
"Max lançou para Alice a bola de beisebol."??
This also sounds wrong with my limited PT knowledge.

As far as I know "para Alice" or "a Alice" constructs would need to be placed in Portuguese at the end.
Direct objects / indirect (o/a/lhe placement before the verb) don't fit here, right?

What are the other valid PT examples with alternating grammar reordering you can think of?

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Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

A few interesting grammar hints can be found in the archived old Web Tips & Notes.

Algumas dicas interessantes de gramática podem ser encontradas nas antigas dicas e notas da Web arquivadas.

https://duome.eu/tips/pt/en
https://duo-tips.pages.dev/tips/en/pt/
https://duolinguists.wordpress.com/eu-f ... do-ingles/

They are for the old courses (tree design) so don't directly fit the path UI.

Eles são para os cursos antigos (design de árvore), portanto não se ajustam diretamente à interface do caminho.

Last edited by Thomas.Heiss on Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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User avatar
Corinnebelle

Re: What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by Corinnebelle »

@Thomas.Heiss

"Max pitched the baseball to Alice".

This sounds right.

@jlbernardes11 Moved to viewforum.php?f=88-inglês

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XeO3
Botswana

Re: What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by XeO3 »

It's called 'dative alternation' or 'dative shift'. Sentences like I throw him the ball & I throw the ball to him are synonyms. You delete the preposition if you put the indirect object (the thing getting the action of the verb 'second-hand') before the direct object (the thing directly receiving the action of the verb). Wikipedia has an article on it, but the grammar is pretty dense.

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Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

There are so many grammar differences for prepositions between Portuguese and English.

The EN->PT course gives several examples when to use por vs para, several possible solutions how to translate and use in/on/at based on context.

Me struggling here and there in Portuguese - as a native German and 2nd English speaker - I can clearly see why it must be NOT so easy for a Brazilian/Portuguese speaker too; it's not for me either.

The EN->PT course (to learn Portuguese, some users used it as a reverse tree to write more in English) has a few more written examples and explanations:

Old Web T&N: www.duome.eu/tips/en/pt

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Thomas.Heiss
Germany

Re: What are the rules to skip prepositions?

Post by Thomas.Heiss »

IIRC there also was a thread/collection about several interesting English threads (advanced detailed stuff) on the old Duolingo discussion forum.

However, I don't remember the author name and if those forum threads about EN usage got archived or not.
He was a Portuguese speaker with extensive English knowledge (much better than mine).


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Some stored DL forum content is spread here or there or the authors moved it to their own blog / website.

Hopefully the clerk / service technician has not deleted everything or already thrown it away or gave the Sdd to the insurance company (what a ridiculous request this one was!).

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