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Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne Topic is solved

Eppi
Finland

Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne

Post by Eppi »

Hello,

Why is it wrong to put för in front of att in this sentence? Many other sentences it belongs there but not in this one. I don't understand

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SansEspoir
Norway

Re: Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne

Post by SansEspoir »

I'm not quite sure I understood your question, but based on your flag, I will assume your native language is finnish? So I asked AI, which said:

Finnish learners often have a hard time understanding the nuances of Swedish word order, and this is a great example!

In Swedish, the word "att" is a particle that introduces a subordinate clause (a clause that can't stand alone as a complete sentence). When you're describing an action or situation, you typically use the infinitive form of the verb (e.g., "att hjälpa" instead of "att hjälpa henne") before the particle "att".

Now, in the sentence "Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne", the word "sin" is a possessive adjective modifying "mamma", meaning "her mother". The verb "ber" (to ask) takes an infinitive phrase as its complement, which is "hjälpa henne" (to help her).

In this specific sentence, using "för" instead of omitting it would actually change the meaning. If you wrote "Flickan ber sin mamma för att hjälpa henne", it would imply that the girl is asking her mother for a reason (an explanation) why she should help her. However, in this sentence, it's not about explaining why she needs help; it's simply about asking her mother to help her.

So, in short, the sentence "Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne" is correct because it uses the correct word order and particle usage. The word "att" introduces the subordinate clause, and the verb "ber" takes an infinitive phrase as its complement. The absence of "för" avoids misinterpreting the sentence's meaning.

Does this explanation help clarify things for your Finnish learner?

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Eppi
Finland

Re: Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne

Post by Eppi »

Yes I am Finnish. AIs explanation seems strange to me, I don't understand why the word för would mean (or implying) reason. I guess I just have to keep learning

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SansEspoir
Norway

Re: Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne

Post by SansEspoir »

I asked AI again, hopefully it explains better now?

Let me try to simplify it for a native Finnish speaker:

In Swedish, "för" is often used to indicate the purpose or reason for an action. However, when using an infinitive verb (like "att hjälpa" in this sentence), "för" is not necessary and can actually make the sentence sound incorrect.

Think of it like this: when you're asking someone to do something for a specific purpose, you usually use "för" (like "ber för henne" in Finnish). But when you're asking someone to do something in general, without specifying a specific purpose, you don't need "för".

For example, in Finnish, you would say "Flicka pyytää äitiään auttamaan" (The girl asks her mother to help), but you wouldn't say "Flicka pyytää äitiään auttamaan för hänen" (The girl asks her mother to help for her). The second sentence sounds incorrect because the purpose of the action is already implied by the verb "auttaa" (to help).

Similarly, in Swedish, the sentence "Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne" is correct because it simply states that the girl is asking her mother to help her, without specifying a specific purpose. Adding "för" would make the sentence sound like the girl is asking her mother to help her for a specific reason, which isn't necessarily the case.

So, in summary, in Swedish, "för" is not necessary when using an infinitive verb like "att hjälpa", and adding it can actually make the sentence sound incorrect.

För can mean a lot of things depending on the sentence, perhaps this site might help clarify it? https://www.omsvenska.se/ordforrad/ordv ... -eller-at/

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Eppi
Finland

Re: Flickan ber sin mamma att hjälpa henne

Post by Eppi »

Thank you, this helped!

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