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Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

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Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

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Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo.

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luo-ning

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by luo-ning »

How should I understand the grammar here?

Cuando no hay nada de luz

Nothing "of light" — does this mean nothing that emits light?

yo le tengo mucho miedo

Could this be rephrased as "yo tengo mucho miedo de ella", with "ella" referring to "la oscuridad"?

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Stasia
Poland

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by Stasia »

luo-ning wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:35 pm

How should I understand the grammar here?

Cuando no hay nada de luz

Nothing "of light" — does this mean nothing that emits light?

I think the most elegant way of translating it close-to-literally would be "when there is no light at all." Compare with:

No tengo nada de dinero. = I have no money at all.

yo le tengo mucho miedo

Could this be rephrased as "yo tengo mucho miedo de ella", with "ella" referring to "la oscuridad"?

Yes, except it is "miedo a la oscuridad."

Native: :poland:; Fluent: :es:, :us:; Getting there: Image; Intermediate: :fr:; Beginner: :ukraine:

Cifi

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by Cifi »

Stasia wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:13 pm
luo-ning wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:35 pm

Could this be rephrased as "yo tengo mucho miedo de ella", with "ella" referring to "la oscuridad"?

Yes, except it is "miedo a la oscuridad."

But generally both prepositions are possible, aren't they?

  • Le tengo miedo a la oscuridad.
  • Tengo miedo de la oscuridad.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

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luo-ning

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by luo-ning »

I've definitely seen "tener miedo de X", as in the song "Hoy Ten Miedo de Mí":

Edit: actually, this song also has the line "Por favor tenme miedo", which I guess is a similar construction to "le tengo mucho miedo" in the Duolingo sentence.

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Cifi

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by Cifi »

luo-ning wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:35 pm

How should I understand the grammar here?

Cuando no hay nada de luz

Nothing "of light" — does this mean nothing that emits light?

I think the preposition de is simply required when you use nada with a noun (unfortunately RAE only deals with nada + adjectives, but nada luz seems wrong to me).

Perhaps a little similar might be un poco + de + noun, where I sometimes forgot to use the preposition and my Spanish friends corrected me.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

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EranBarLev
Israel

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by EranBarLev »

This is the first time I see the sentence bot produce a post with no translation. [mention]luo-ning[/mention], is this a bug?

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EranBarLev
Israel

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by EranBarLev »

Cifi wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 5:05 pm

I think the preposition de is simply required when you use nada with a noun (unfortunately RAE only deals with nada + adjectives, but nada luz seems wrong to me).

Perhaps a little similar might be un poco + de + noun, where I sometimes forgot to use the preposition and my Spanish friends corrected me.

I think you can also say "poca luz", but I'm not sure if there's a difference in meaning between "poca luz" and "un poco de luz". Anyway this doesn't work with "nada".

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John238922
Australia

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by John238922 »

luo-ning wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:35 pm

Could this be rephrased as "yo tengo mucho miedo de ella", with "ella" referring to "la oscuridad"?

Why would you do that?

The original text says nothing about fear of what.

Cifi

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by Cifi »

EranBarLev wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 5:57 am

I think you can also say "poca luz", but I'm not sure if there's a difference in meaning between "poca luz" and "un poco de luz". Anyway this doesn't work with "nada".

I think I would understand hay poca luz as if there isn't enough, while hay un poco de luz would be more like at least there is some, which is sufficient for a given purpose. So to me, there seems to be a difference.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

User avatar
luo-ning

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by luo-ning »

John238922 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:15 am
luo-ning wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:35 pm

Could this be rephrased as "yo tengo mucho miedo de ella", with "ella" referring to "la oscuridad"?

Why would you do that?

The original text says nothing about fear of what.

What is "le" doing in the original then, if it doesn't refer to "oscuridad"?

EranBarLev wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 5:52 am

This is the first time I see the sentence bot produce a post with no translation. @luo-ning, is this a bug?

No, it's just a sentence that Duolingo doesn't provide a translation for.

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Cifi

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by Cifi »

luo-ning wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:22 am

What is "le" doing in the original then, if it doesn't refer to "oscuridad"?

I didn't understand that anyone stated it doesn't. To me this is the atonic indirect object pronoun referring to la oscuridad.

Native: :de: Intermediate: :uk: Lower intermediate: :es: Beginner: :fr: Absolute beginner: 🇬🇷
(If there are errors in what I'm writing in either language, please do correct me - I'll never take it as offense or something like that.)

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by gmads »

Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo

Sometimes one truly wonders from what kind of bad trip people conjured up this kind of sentences... Anyway...

*** nada de ***

From the Diccionario de la lengua española, 2021 update, we see that as a indefinite, singular pronoun, nada can be followed by the preposition "de" and a noun (usually uncountable):

6) pron. indef. n. sing. Ninguna cantidad o ninguna porción. U. a menudo con un complemento con la preposición de, normalmente seguida de nombres no contables. No comió nada de pan.

While one may leave out the "nada de" part, it's usually used for emphasis. Compare:

  • no comió pan (he didn't eat bread)
  • no comió nada de pan (he didn't eat any bread)

See again the emphasis it provides:

-- puedes comer lo que quieras, pero nada de dulces (you can eat whatever you want, but no sweets)

-- ¿quieres algo/un poco de esto? (do you want some of this?)
-- no, no quiero nada de eso, gracias (no, I don't want any of that, thanks)

-- tú no quieres nada de eso, ¿verdad? (you don't want any of that, do you?)
-- no, claro que no (no, of course not)
-- entonces compórtate (then behave yourself)

See also nada at wikilengua.org:

Como pronombre, precederá a un grupo de palabras introducido por "de" en una oración en la que aparecen los verbos "haber" o "tener".
-- no tiene nada de malo hablar de política pacíficamente.
-- no hubo nada de irónico en sus comentarios.

Notice, however, that when followed by a personal noun or a personal pronoun, "nada de" becomes "nothing from:"

-- no he sabido nada de ti" (I haven't heard [nothing] from you).

*** miedo ***

As indicated by the Diccionario panhispánico de dudas 2005, the noun miedo ("fear") can be followed by the prepositions "a" or "de":

1) "Temor". El complemento que expresa la causa del miedo puede ir introducido por "a" o "de"
-- se hablaba del miedo a la muerte (there used to be talk about of the fear of death)
-- el miedo de la muerte me despertaba a cualquier hora de la noche (the fear of death woke me up at any hour of the night)

From the given examples, it may seem that there is no difference between using "a" ("to") or "de" ("of") because they chose an abstract noun (la muerte: death), thus, one intuitively interprets the second sentence as meaning that "my being afraid of death kept me awake [...]", even though one should interpret it as "the fear that death had [of something] kept me awake [...]," given the usage of the preposition "de." Maybe the following examples will clarify this.

-- se hablaba del miedo a los terroristas (there was talk about the fear of terrorists)
-- se hablaba del miedo de los terroristas (there was talk about the fear of the terrorists)

-- el miedo a los terroristas me despertaba [...] (the fear of terrorists woke me up [...])
-- el miedo de los terroristas me despertaba [...] (the fear of the terrorists woke me up [...])

*** temer ***

If one uses the verb "temer" ("to be afraid of") instead of the noun "miedo" ("fear"), then using "a" or "de" makes a slight difference, as the former implies totalness while the latter just an aspect from what is being feared. Another way to express this would be:

  • temer a "x" means to be afraid of "x"
  • temer [algo] de "x" means to be afraid of what "x" may do or cause (to fear something from "x")

For example:

-- le temo a los terroristas (I am afraid of terrorists [all of them]; I fear terrorists themselves).
-- lo que temo de los terroristas es su fanatismo (what I fear from terrorists is their fanaticism)
-- no temo nada de los terroristas (I do not fear anything from terrorists; I fear nothing from terrorists)

Notice in the third sentence how "nada de" becomes "nothing from" because it was followed by a personal noun (i.e. the terrorists).

*** tener miedo ***

Note 1. Here it will be very important to keep in mind that there is a difference between using just the noun "miedo," as explained in the second section of this post, and using it as part of the expression "tener miedo," as will be explained in here.

Note 2. While the indirect object pronoun "le" tends to be omitted when the indirect object is present, in Mexico we do use it in a redundant way, so I will put it in my examples, but between brackets to make clear this fact.

The transitive verb "temer" may be substituted with the intransitive phrasal verb "tener miedo" ("to be afraid of"), which is formed by the transitive verb "tener" ("to have") followed by the noun "miedo" ("fear"). Given that "miedo" is the direct object of the verb "tener," what comes after "tener miedo" must then be an indirect object that needs to be preceded by the preposition "a" ("to"). Another kind of objects may be used, but they require a different preposition.

Have said that, we can then see that when using "tener miedo," one uses the proposition "a" to introduce the thing that causes us to fear. For example:

  • [le] tengo miedo a los terroristas
  • cuando era pequeña, mi hija [le] tenía miedo a la oscuridad
  • [le] tuve miedo al futuro porque no tenía estudios

When a verbal object (complement) follows, then the preposition "de" is used. Note, however, that in this case the indirect object pronoun "le" must not be used.

  • le tengo miedo de reprobar el examen (I'm afraid of failing the exam)
  • tenía miedo de que subiera el precio del dólar (I was afraid that the price of the dollar would rise --or, I feared that the price [...])

Notwithstanding the previous two explanations about how each preposition is used, it is actually quite common to see the preposition "de" being used instead of the preposition "a."

  • tengo miedo de los terroristas
  • cuando era pequeña, mi hija tenía miedo de la oscuridad
  • tuve miedo del futuro porque no tenía estudios

*** le ***

Note 3. I have already explained about "le" in other posts (see the last link below) so I won't get here much into it.

In the following dialog, I answer and express what I am afraid of:

-- ¿de qué tienes miedo? (what are you afraid of?)
-- yo tengo miedo de la oscuridad (I am afraid of darkness)

In the following, however, as the subject has already been mentioned, I then only use a pronoun:

-- ayer se fue la luz y quedamos en total oscuridad (-- yesterday the light went out and we were left in total darkness)
-- yo le tengo miedo (I am afraid of it)

In my answer, "le" then refers to "la oscuridad."

Thus, that is why "le" is used in Duo's sentence.

  • [...] hay oscuridad (a noun introduces the topic)...
  • ... y yo le (a pronoun is used to avoid repeating the noun) tengo mucho miedo

****** references


:hash:  ㆍespañol ㆍgramática ㆍvocabulario ㆍSentenceDiscussion

Last edited by gmads on Mon May 01, 2023 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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EranBarLev
Israel

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by EranBarLev »

gmads wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:43 pm
  • [le] tengo miedo a los terroristas

Why "le" and not "les"? The indirect object is plural here.

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gmads
Mexico

Re: Cuando no hay nada de luz, hay oscuridad y yo le tengo mucho miedo. (en → es)

Post by gmads »

EranBarLev wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:18 am
gmads wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:43 pm
  • [le] tengo miedo a los terroristas

Why "le" and not "les"? The indirect object is plural here.

Indeed, you are right! This is one of those cases where everyday language wins over what one attempts to be careful grammatical explanations :D It definitely should be "les:"

  • les tengo miedo a los terroristas

I guess that from some strange reason we Spanish speakers have a very particular approach toward the indirect object pronoun "le," as not only we tend to use it redundantly but in singular when it should be in plural, as you just correctly pointed out.

As usual, this has already been duly registered on page 678 of the Nueva gramática de la lengua española, manual edition (see page 49 of this PDF):

35.2.3h In reduplicated constructions, unstressed pronouns agree with stressed pronouns or with the noun group to which they refer. However, it is common to use the dative "le" in correspondence with a prepositional group built with plural nouns:

Y poco a poco voy cogiendo complejo de que soy la que sobro…
De que te sobro a ti, y le sobro a mis padres y a todos (Martínez Mediero, Juana); Me compra manises para que le dé a los monos (Benedetti, Primavera).

This discrepancy is recorded in all linguistic areas, especially in oral language. However, it is recommended to avoid it in formal records.

And also at the Diccionario panhispánico de dudas:

a) Often, when the unstressed dative pronoun concurs in the sentence with the prepositional indirect object, the singular "le" is used, even though the referent is plural



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