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Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van! Topic is solved

junoba
Canada

Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by junoba »

Ez nem görögül van!

I thought ‘van’ was always omitted in the present tense unless:

  • we’re talking about a place (“hol”)
  • we’re talking about a time (“mikor”)
  • we’re talking about how something/someone is (“hogy”)
  • we’re using a description that ends with va/ve, i.e an adverbial participle (example: “ez a szoba fútve van”)

Languages don’t fall into the 4 exceptions above….or I don’t think they do! So why does “van” appear to be used with languages? Is there a fifth exception? (and possibly others too?)

User avatar
uralicnomad
Hungary

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by uralicnomad »

This link should suffice and sums it up better than I could at this ungodly hour of the morning :)

http://www.hungarianreference.com/Van-i ... tting.aspx

JuditRandomNumbers

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by JuditRandomNumbers »

Because "görögül" is an adverb. (This is not the Greek way)

junoba
Canada

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by junoba »

Hmmm…. That was the exact website I was looking at when I posted my question. They list the 4 exceptions I put in my question and as far as I can see, the sentence does not fall into one of these exceptions..

So unfortunately I still don’t understand.

junoba
Canada

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by junoba »

Concerning the second reply, first of all, adverbs in general do not fall into the list of exceptions where “van” is used, according to the website I was looking at. Only “adverbial participles” ending with va/ve are mentioned, not adverbs.

Thanks for helping out, Hungarians, but I‘m still puzzled.

User avatar
uralicnomad
Hungary

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by uralicnomad »

junoba wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 10:18 am

Hmmm…. That was the exact website I was looking at when I posted my question.

Actually, taking a look at the website again and it seems a little deceptive to me.. I've never thought of van as simply 'is' but rather 'it is'. The only real advice I can give is if you are a star wars fan, try and talk like yoda. Sounds strange, but I did this with an old girlfriend and it worked.

JuditRandomNumbers

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by JuditRandomNumbers »

junoba wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 10:31 am

Concerning the second reply, first of all, adverbs in general do not fall into the list of exceptions where “van” is used, according to the website I was looking at. Only “adverbial participles” ending with va/ve are mentioned, not adverbs.

Thanks for helping out, Hungarians, but I‘m still puzzled.

"How" means an adverb. How else do you express how something is?

I think part of the problem is you are thinking of görögül as the same as görög. It isn't. It is an adverb ie expresses HOW something is done.

For many questions Zsuzsi's blog is useful - https://magyarbagoly.blogspot.com/2022/ ... annak.html.

User avatar
jzsuzsi

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by jzsuzsi »

Yes, because "görögül" is an adverb.

Looking at the hungarianreference page, it lists four points

When mentioning or asking how someone/something is
When mentioning or asking where someone/something is
When mentioning or asking when something occurs
Using an adverbial participle (info)

I think we can force görögül into the "how category"

You are speaking? How? ---- in Greek / in a Greek way / görögül.

Görögül beszélek. Görögül beszélsz. Magyarul beszélsz.

"Ez görögül van. " -- How it is written? In Greek.

User avatar
jzsuzsi

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by jzsuzsi »

Okay, maybe that was not totally convincing. :P But when the forums still existed, I simply said "use van with adverbs"

MagyarJános
Hungary

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by MagyarJános »

There are a lot of the suffixes that need some explanation.
Görög and Görögül are different. The former is identity, the latter is "in the language". It's almost like the way a location is treated.

Ez portugálül van
spanyolül
franciaül
németül
lengyelül
angolül

User avatar
jzsuzsi

Re: Why is ‘van’ used in: Ez nem görögül van!

Post by jzsuzsi »

MagyarJános, it is sometimes -ul sometimes -ül (depending on vowel harmony)

Ez görögül van
Ez portugálul van
spanyolul
franciául
németül
lengyelül
angolul

These forms (with ul /ül) are adverbs
while the base forms (görög, német, francia, lengyel) are adjectives (or nouns)

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